Any DipTrace experts here? (solderman?)

[culturejam]

I'm digging DipTrace so far. But there's something bugging me about it.

I can't find input/output symbols for the schematic editor.

Also, why won't the PCB editor recognize ground and power hookups? It keeps the nets connected, but it won't make a pad for hooking up ground and VCC.

I've gone through the tutorial PDF and can't find anything about input/output. Is the only way to just add pads manually for in/out/9v/gnd?? Seems sort of silly to have huge libraries and all those options and not have something so simple included by default.

Thanks

[defaced]

I've gone through the tutorial PDF and can't find anything about input/output. Is the only way to just add pads manually for in/out/9v/gnd?? Seems sort of silly to have huge libraries and all those options and not have something so simple included by default.

I know squat about diptrace, but that's how Eagle works.  You want a pad, you add it.  Nothing is included for free, per se.  And it actually works out that way.  Maybe you don't want it to go to a pad, maybe you want it to go to a connector?  But now you've got an extra pad.  And what size pad would be the default?  It' s just easier to let the user decide what they want. 

[Galego]

Just go into the Pattern editor and do a pattern with 2 pads and another with 3 pads, save to your own library file.

Place an Audio Jack connector on your schematic and one VCC and one GND. Now go to their properties, pattern, and associate the pins of the Jack to the pattern you made, the same for the VCC/GND, have them be the same refdes with part1/2. Once you convert to PCB they will be attached to those nets, and if you want to place the pads other that the shape you did, just do a 'ungroup pattern' and you can move each pad separately on the PCB editor.

You could simply ignore this for VCC and GND, and just manually add a couple of pads to your PCB design. Just get used to designing your own patterns, because that's very useful.

[culturejam]

Thanks for the tips, guys! I'll definitely try it out these suggestions.

I love Eagle for schematics, but the PCB editor just doesn't make sense to me.

Diptrace is making more sense on the PCB side, at least so far.

Thanks again.

[waltk]

In DIPTRACE, the libraries for schematic symbols and PCB patterns are separate things.  I found it most helpful to create my own "effects" libraries for both patterns and schematic symbols.  For patterns, if you search the pattern libraries for "HDR" you'll find header patterns with different numbers of pads.  Copy the 2X1 and 3X1 patterns to your own library.  Then create a schematic library and copy the symbols for batteries, jacks, and pots (search "JACK", "BAT", and "POT").  In your schematic library, attach the header patterns to the battery, jack and pot symbols.

It takes a little fiddling around, but you only have to do it once.  You can drag jack, battery, and pot symbols to your schematic, and when you create the PCB, it will automatically have the header patterns (with the correctly hooked up pads) on your PCB layout.

For grounding, use the GND "netport" symbol, and hook it up to the negative battery connector - then you put additional GND symbols anywhere you need them on your schematic, and they will connected correctly to the ground net on your PCB layout.

Hope that helps.  It seems like us DIPTRACE users are in the minority (with most folks using Eagle, or DIYLAYOUTCREATOR), but I found DIPTRACE easier to learn.

A couple last hints - CTRL-R for rotating components, and ESC for changing editing modes are your friends.

[culturejam]

Thanks for the clarification, Walt. 

A couple last hints - CTRL-R for rotating components, and ESC for changing editing modes are your friends.

I also noticed that pressing the space bar also rotates the selected component. 

[caress]

I love Eagle for schematics, but the PCB editor just doesn't make sense to me.

if you spend some time with it, it gets easier and easier...
what part doesn't make sense?

[culturejam]

if you spend some time with it, it gets easier and easier...
what part doesn't make sense?

The part where it flings the components on the board connected in an insane, totally non-intuitive way. It's like it just chooses the most complicated way to connect the components possible, and then I spend the next hour and a half trying to make it better. I seem to end up with a layout that is far from optimized, and it takes a long time to get to that point.

It's actually quite usable if you just start from a blank PCB and add components ad-hoc. But that defeats all of the advantage of having it integrated with the schematic.

I've seen a few video tutorials on the process, but they never cover a schematic-to-PCB conversion that involves more than half a dozen components. I want to see someone show how to take a stompbox schematic with 20 or 30 parts, multiple ground points, etc, and convert to PCB. If I could see it, I could get it. Reading about isn't cutting it for me, nor is watching a demo with 4 components.

[tiges_ tendres]

if you spend some time with it, it gets easier and easier...
what part doesn't make sense?

The part where it flings the components on the board connected in an insane, totally non-intuitive way. It's like it just chooses the most complicated way to connect the components possible, and then I spend the next hour and a half trying to make it better. I seem to end up with a layout that is far from optimized, and it takes a long time to get to that point.

It's actually quite usable if you just start from a blank PCB and add components ad-hoc. But that defeats all of the advantage of having it integrated with the schematic.

I've seen a few video tutorials on the process, but they never cover a schematic-to-PCB conversion that involves more than half a dozen components. I want to see someone show how to take a stompbox schematic with 20 or 30 parts, multiple ground points, etc, and convert to PCB. If I could see it, I could get it. Reading about isn't cutting it for me, nor is watching a demo with 4 components.

That's my problem with it too.  It's fine for a booster, but it can be taxing after you spent hours making a schematic to then have to untangle a jumble of odd connections.  Auto routing and rats nest seem to make matters even worse!

[edvard]

Such is the joy of not using Auto-place!

I don't know if Diptrace does a decent job of auto placing, but from all I've read, no PCB editors do.
Sure, it would be nice to see a PCB editor that puts pots at the top, and parts strung more or less in the order and position they are in the schematic, but for now computers aren't the best tools for doing that.
I admit it's frustrating at first taking the jumble of parts and ordering them in a way that makes some sort of sense, but then I get down to business doing an auto-trace to see where things might go, and then rip it all up and optimizing from there.
It's frustrating if you don't appreciate the 'puzzle' aspect of it, but then again we do much the same thing with breadboards and vero prototypes, right?

Here's some practice:
http://www.addictinggames.com/untangle.html
(Really, I'm serious, it helps.)

[culturejam]

I don't know if Diptrace does a decent job of auto placing, but from all I've read, no PCB editors do.

I've only tested it with simple schematics, but so far, the auto tracing isn't terrible. I'm very likely to do the initial rough placement manually, then run auto route, and then do more manual optimizing from there.

It's frustrating if you don't appreciate the 'puzzle' aspect of it, but then again we do much the same thing with breadboards and vero prototypes, right?

Yes, we do. But with a breadboard, I can just move the parts where I want easily. With Eagle, moving one part can screw up the tangle of air wires.

Again, if I could watch a video of someone setting up a Fuzz Face schematic in Eagle and then going through the PCB layout process, I think I'd be okay. So far, no such demonstration exists. The demos that exist are geared for other applications that I have trouble relating directly to our purposes in the DIY effects world.

[caress]

a few quick tips.

as far as moving a part and having a tangle of wires, the best thing to do is just rip up your connections to that particular part and move it separately.

using a ground pour at the beginning of the process can remove a lot of unnecessary ground airwires.

group your components in clusters according to specific circuit blocks outside of the board borders - for example place a TL074 and all of the parts that correspond to it in one little spot before moving it onto the board area.  this can greatly help in layout efficiency as all those components are already together.

i think i'll make a demo tomorrow!  a fuzz face it is.

[culturejam]

i think i'll make a demo tomorrow!  a fuzz face it is.

Oh wow. If you would do that, I'd be super stoked and definitely in your debt! 

[will queue for free stuff]

gaussmarkov diy fx has a great tutorial on Eagle.
Even better is the library of parts he has made available
for stompbox users.
I haven't had to go searching for a single part since I included his libraries.
I thank him every time I open Eagle.
http://gaussmarkov.net/wordpress/tools/software/eagle-cad/
Thanks Paul!