Tubes are funny things!

[Brymus]

I have owned quite a few valve jr's ,It's what started me into DIY (I was actually was one of the igmos who bought stuff from Bit Mo Bruce on the bay)
I never cared for the Sovteks that came in them...
They to me sounded better(in an EVJ)(or the EVJ sounded better) than my SS Crates but in comparison the Chinese Tungsol 12AX7 was like getting a whole new amp when I swapped it for the stock Sovtek in my EVJ.
Awhile back I lucked into some NOS RCA 12AX7's so I was like way excited to try them in my EVJ....
BUT they sounded worse to me than the Tungsol in the EVJ > However they sounded EXCELLENT in my 18 watt Marshall ?
I mean it was like So this is what the hype over these 18 watters is about... It was a very noticable difference.
And with power tubes the EL84s I have found that brands dont seem to matter,the same brand will sound good or bad from tube to tube.
One set sounds awful with JJs and great with TADs but then the next time around the JJs sounds great and the new TADs arent as good.

I have found consistant results with the gold pin, long plate, spiral ,JJ 12AX7 (ECC83 IIRC)
No matter the amp or the lot I get them from they sound superior,I have read this is due to>
1) A much higher quality control for the gold pin line
2) The long plate adds more tonal whatever(mids,depth,character,whatever it is I like it)
3) The spiral filaments reduce noise/harmonics
But crap they are 25-30$ apiece vs 6-10$ for a plain short plate JJ 12ax7
Some will say the gold improves conductivity but since the sockets and wiring aren't gold I dont buy that.
I tried some nano fluid on the pins and it seemed to help but, with out being able to accurately A/B I would guess its more wishful thinking than actual proof.

In short with the exception of the gold pin JJs I have yet to find consistant results I can hear from any brand or even NOS tubes.

I have had bad plain JJs that were brand new ,in fact several times I got noisy or just bad JJ EL84s
I did get some NOS tubes from the bay and a certain Fender branded 12ax7(very thick tube and you cant see hardly any heater glow) has been one of my favorites in every amp I tried it in as well.
Outa the 3 NOS RCA's I bought one was actually dead,the other two are still in my 18 watter.

[davidallancole]

That is interesting Brymus.  Unfortunately I am to poor to afford inconsistencies.  Why can't all tubes rock straight out of the box?

By the way, I like your signature at the bottom.

[Brymus]

Thanks David,
I could pick tons of sigs from Rick he is such a character 
If you live near someone who specializes in tube amps and testing you could probably take your amp in and demo tubes...
Someone like Valve Lord in Colorado.
You will pay extra  but vs buying several to pick from it would actually be cheaper IDK
I have had just as good a luck with used ,old and NOS as I have with new about 50/50 probably better.
With the exception of dead or bad/noisy microphonic tubes they all work and the sound they make is a matter of opinoin just like which women are hotter and which cars are the best.

You know lets say you get a set of dark tubes, instead of switching to some brighter ones you could just use a brighter cab or vise versa.
Also its so hard when you factor in everything from cables,and PU's,to spkrs and strings to really say whats best sounding.
It works and without extra noise or it doesnt,after that its all personal taste IMO
I mean to say whats your favorite color of sound ?

[zambo]

For preamp tubes i am so happy to find out that I like the sound of 12au7 vs. anyother 12a*7 ....I like to run the amp cleaner and then punch the input as hard as I can to get the drive. Its been the most obviouse difference in the sound I have had. I guess I was always trying to get the sound from the amp before....the booster and the cleaner tubes was the component for me. The type of tubes while having a different tone ( darker or brighter i guess ) doesnt seem to matter as much as getting the right "feel" or sensitivity...never got that from an ax or at7 tube. Maybe as I get more picky i will develope an actual preference...hmmm

[Brymus]

OK I am staring at my 18 watter trying to think of a reason that the Tungsol sounds better than the NOS RCA in my EVJ but the RCA sounds way better in my 18 watter.
Then it comes to me:
1) I used the Tungsol when I did all the mods to my EVJ,so almost every mod's A/B sound testing was done using it.
    The amp probably evolved to what sounded best for the Tungsol,IIRC (its been almost 3 years since I built it,)
2) The 18 watter was done using the cheapest JJ's I could get at the time,so the mods,and testing evolved with lesser different tubes.
   
I am guessing this is why the tubes sound the way they do,in two different amps.   

[davidallancole]

That would make sense Brymus.  I have heard that mentioned before about having amps designed around the cheaper tubes, so better quality tubes wind up sounding worse sometimes because the circuit isn't right for it.

zambo,

I'll have to try out the 12au7.  Hopefully my buddy has one of those.

[JKowalski]

OK I am staring at my 18 watter trying to think of a reason that the Tungsol sounds better than the NOS RCA in my EVJ but the RCA sounds way better in my 18 watter.
Then it comes to me:
1) I used the Tungsol when I did all the mods to my EVJ,so almost every mod's A/B sound testing was done using it.
    The amp probably evolved to what sounded best for the Tungsol,IIRC (its been almost 3 years since I built it,)
2) The 18 watter was done using the cheapest JJ's I could get at the time,so the mods,and testing evolved with lesser different tubes.
   
I am guessing this is why the tubes sound the way they do,in two different amps.   

Tube brands will always have variation in characteristics, even within the same brand (hopefully not as much though) and these variations will cause changes to the circuit operation. If you want to truly a/b tubes, you'd need to adjust values in the circuit for the particular tube stage so that the basic operating conditions are similar. Likely you won't be able to tell much difference at that point, I think.

Putting tubes in different amps is an extreme example of this - there is two different circuits currently working with two different tubes. Swapping them results in both tube variance "errors" in comparison as well as the "errors" from the difference in the circuits. The amps with the new tubes are probably performing much (much meaning more like alot of a little) different then they were before...

I'm one of those people who seriously doubts any sound difference I hear in comparing two similar things. I need some really noticable difference to even care. Remember that a lot of what you do hear is just your mind telling you bull****. I'm sure that even in blind tests the mind differentiates each subsequent test by substantial amounts of "fake" tone... If you think this way (extremely critically) and end up with any slight doubts that there actually was a difference, then who cares? It's really not worth it. Pop in the cheaper/sturdier tube and roll with it. Let's not become audiophiles! I can't physically bear the sight of actually selling $5,000 orgone-infused gold plated directional AC power cables.