OT but need help, about amps and Watts and Power handling and speakers...

[solarplexus]

Sorry if it's OT, but I can't find the answers I'm looking for in another forum for Bass.  Here, all the electronics of stuff can be analyzed from pros

Here it is:

I read here and there that the Fender Hot Rod Deluxe is somewhat similar to a Bassman.  A Bassman was used for bass and guitar throughout the years.  I know for a fact that some people are using the Hot Rod with bass with great results.  I tried mine at low volume and do like the tone I get.  HOWEVER, the answer I can't get is if the speaker needs to be replaced by a bass speaker for higher volumes (say in a band practice).  No one seem to be able to give me a straight technical answer.  The amp is 40W tubes, the Eminence speaker is 50W.  I was thinking of putting a bass speaker in it to prevent the guitar speaker from blowing from too much tension from slapping.  Some say it is not necessary, others say do it, others say it wouldn't be super great.  All I want to know is, should I or should I not change the speaker to prevent it from too tearing, or, considering the 50W of the speaker, I am safe to play, let's say, at 50% of the volume.  I am curious, I just want some help finding the answer to this simple question.  PLZ help me with your knowledge!

Thank you so much!

Matt

[PRR]

Bass plays an octave lower than guitar.

For same cone size, for equal acoustic output on each instrument's lowest note, a bass speaker should move FOUR TIMES more than a guitar speaker.

However stiff guitar speakers "tend" to accept power below their lowest good note gracefully.

So will it blow? No easy way to know.

I do not know what speaker comes in the HRD. (Brand and color is not enuff; Fender can certainly order special-specification or lower price than the retail models, of which Eminence already has too many. )

I would think, in general, you want a BASS speaker, to have a hope of tone in your bottom octave, and so the gitar speaker's mid-honk does not compete with your guitarist. Also to get a power rating based on hard-played BASS not hard-played guitar.

> at 50% of the volume

You can not judge Watts by ear.

If you set the knob at "5" then when you get wound-up you will pluck twice as hard and still make maximum power.

[solarplexus]

Thanks for the reply.

So from what I am hearing... I COULD put a bass speaker in it and would be fine right?

That is something I would like to try, I am just curious

Do you have any idea what kind of wattage bass speaker I would need?

[petemoore]

    Functionality/long life: I've seen speaker coil pop right through a cone, I don't believe that's even a possibility with this combo. I've seen smoke come from a speaker coil that's had too much power/current run through it, heated long enough to make breakfast, most likely failure option, but not exactly likely if:
  The speaker can handle everything the amp could possibly throw at it.
  OT: Hf's can rip a coil off a former when fierce enough.
  For this App: Bass, it's the power/current thing that the amp might have enough capacity to overheat the coil. On stage it'd be easy, alone [or where you can actually clearly hear the speaker] you would probably have to endure tonal semi-ugliness that become known when subjecting the speaker parts to extremes.
  Will recommend that wise choosing of the speaker for bass should include cabinet/speaker study.
  Essentially, all cabinets/speakers are compromises, open back combo is more suited to guitar frequency ranges.
  If you figure you'll be happier in the long run with infinite baffle or ported or other design, choosing a 'bassier speaker' for the combo cab...maybe can be something which can be transferred to a more suitable box, later.
  Use various size orchestra insruments to get an idea of how frequency range and air-cavity volume are related, there's a ratio.
 

[solarplexus]

Ok so I would need to choose a speaker with the good frequency handling to get the bass I need.  I assume the enclosure would give somewhat a freq boost around 200-300Hz if like you say it is more suited for guitar frequencies, I would need a bass speaker with a scoop in those frequencies to even it.  Does that make sense?

[MikeH]

I'd say you'd want to run an external speaker cab for bass.  Guitar cabs generally aren't 'tuned' for the right frequencies.

[PRR]

> I COULD put a bass speaker in it and would be fine right?

Of course.

It might not be the greatest bass-amp in town, but it will be "fine".

And a *BASS*-rated speaker won't rip itself apart, and shouldn't sound unhappy on the lowest notes.

> Do you have any idea what kind of wattage bass speaker I would need?

You say it is a 40 Watt amp. Look for a speaker _rated_ for BASS, with at least "40W" rating. The instrument-speaker maker allows for dubious amp numbers and probable GROSS over-drive. And we are assuming you will use the HRD cabinet.

I have no opinion on bass speakers (all the ones I used to like are long out of production). You mentioned Eminence. Their only 12" is BASSLITE™ S2012  12" 150W 97 dB, which will clearly absorb whatever a "40W" amp can put out. I know the grandfather of Electro-Voice DL12X, a very good speaker, with more 200Hz-1KHz than the S2012 and less of the 2KHz bump. Peavey 1201-8BW is an old classic and unkillable. In a low-price zone, Jensen MOD MOD12-70 is clearly a guitar speaker but they say it works on bass.

Most stage-amp BASS speakers will be pretty similar. The principles are well known. There isn't a market for "low power", like 15 Watt, bass speakers trade power for size so they are mostly rated for higher power. Anyway the advantage of a low-power coil, light weight, is a DIS-advantage when making bass in portable boxes.

> Guitar cabs generally aren't 'tuned' for the right frequencies.

For bass, the main thing is: is the box big enough? A bass speaker should be the size of a econoline van. That's not practical, we make-do with cabs of 16 to 3 cubic feet.

Which indeed suggests some big external box. I used 12 and 16 cubic-foot bass boxes, and larger rooms could use more.

However that's a heck of a beast to move. (The 16cf never left the building it was built in, just rode up/down the lift.)

The HRD cab seems to be 2 cubic feet. That's on the small size, but not horribly. The S2012 will be -3dB near 60Hz, which is not full bass range but very good for this size box. DL12X will make the same output at 60Hz but more mid-bass. And you shouldn't obsess the dB and Hz..... in typical rooms, the location, stage-stiffness, and other factors make larger differences.