dale resistors

[numpty]

Dale resistors -Do they make an audible difference in stompboxes compared to metal resistors?  18p or 03p per resistor? 

[thetragichero]

i'm no EE or pro at pedal building, but i'd be willing to bet they don't
use whatever's cheapest

[CodeMonk]

I would think it would depend on the circuit and the purpose of the resistor.
Use only 1 metal film and you may not hear a difference. Use a lot of them and you may. Or you may not.

[R.G.]

Dale resistors -Do they make an audible difference in stompboxes compared to metal resistors?  18p or 03p per resistor? 

The myth of magic, mystical "tone enhancing" parts just won't die. One company is even NAMED "Magic Parts".

Short answer - no. The brand name "Dale" on a resistor makes no difference at all. They *may* even not make their own resistors any more. It depends on how badly they're infected with MBA disease.

[amptramp]

Dale was bought up by Vishay some time ago.  Generic metal film resistors may have a noise advantage in some circuits (although a guitar effects chain is not likely to be one of them).  Whether they are Dale or someone else's resistors does not matter.

[stringsthings]

here's one way to find out:  ...

make two identical fuzz boxes .... fuzz box 1 is made with Dale-brand Resistors ... fuzz box 2 is made with X-brand Resistors ... keep all other components and variables identical .... ( i.e. same IC's, same PCB layout, etc ... )


hook each fuzz box up to an extremely accurate amplification system ....
find a guitar player that really knows their stuff and ask them to play an identical piece of music thru each fuzzy box ... promise them a handsome monetary reward for their effortz 

then record the results with an extremely precise recording system ... ( don't forget to give your guitar player a copy of the results )

your results may vary due to other variables ...

if you really want to go the extra kilometer, gather 7 of your closest golden-eared buddies and have a listening party .... double-blind preferred ... promise pizza and beer ... and don't forget to publish the results ... ( or just file the documentation away for later use ) ...

( just for fun, get 8 buds to do the listening .... 4 will vote one way, and the other 4 will vote the other way! 

[Scruffie]

here's one way to find out:  ...

make two identical fuzz boxes .... fuzz box 1 is made with Dale-brand Resistors ... fuzz box 2 is made with X-brand Resistors ... keep all other components and variables identical .... ( i.e. same IC's, same PCB layout, etc ... )


hook each fuzz box up to an extremely accurate amplification system ....
find a guitar player that really knows their stuff and ask them to play an identical piece of music thru each fuzzy box ... promise them a handsome monetary reward for their effortz 

then record the results with an extremely precise recording system ... ( don't forget to give your guitar player a copy of the results )

your results may vary due to other variables ...

if you really want to go the extra kilometer, gather 7 of your closest golden-eared buddies and have a listening party .... double-blind preferred ... promise pizza and beer ... and don't forget to publish the results ... ( or just file the documentation away for later use ) ...

( just for fun, get 8 buds to do the listening .... 4 will vote one way, and the other 4 will vote the other way! 

Don't forget to match the resistors, 1% is still 1%...

But Dale sound wayyy better, the mojo is just there, I mean they cost more, they must be better! and that dude uses them in all his gear, you know... that dude... people talk about playing technique, the room, the amp, the guitar, strings, pick, physcoacoustics, the players position and amp in that room, how many drinks the listener has had, how hungover the guitarist is that day, the fact the audience couldn't give two shits about what parts you put where aslong as you rock out with your %^&* out.

Oh wait i'm talking out my ass... use whatever the @#$% you have to hand... ceramics capacitors work in place of silver mica too.

[LucifersTrip]

here's one way to find out:  ...

make two identical fuzz boxes .... fuzz box 1 is made with Dale-brand Resistors ... fuzz box 2 is made with X-brand Resistors ... keep all other components and variables identical .... ( i.e. same IC's, same PCB layout, etc ... )

that wouldn't work...there are way too many factors (ie, every component will be slightly different). you'd have to put them in the same
box with a switch to choose between the two types of resistors you are testing...

[numpty]

"It depends on how badly they're infected with MBA disease" - whats that?
I assume from what you are all saying that even carbon resistors instead of metal will not make any difference in guitar application circuits including tube amps? I have always used metal ones because usually that's all that is available. I use 2watt metal for tube amps.

[LucifersTrip]

I simply use whatever I have on hand...case in point...I used 5 different types of resistors on this fuzz:

http://www.luciferstrip.com/fuzz/heathta28-perf.jpg

[Earthscum]

here's one way to find out:  ...

Guitarist: Kicks on Dale resistor box... it's quiet. Kicks on cheap resistor box... lots of hisssssssssssssssssssssssssss...

The only time I consider using MF resistors is when they're affecting the signal directly, including higher value feedback resistors. As it's been pointed out here, the only real advantage is dropping a bit of thermal noise. If you design right, that can be managed fairly easily without resorting to special resistors.

Paying extra just because it's got a name on it? Pff... my girlfriend has too much useless crap with Spongebob on it.

[R.G.]

"It depends on how badly they're infected with MBA disease" - whats that?

A lot of businesses in the USA started hiring people with degrees in Business Administration, typically a Master's in Business Administration, or MBA. These people were supposed to know how to run a business to make the most possible money by making it more efficient. Eventually, the MBA holder came to be valued, even revered.

Some MBAs are very good, and turn out good results making the business more money while making customers happier, expanding things for everyone. However, some MBAs practice what I'd call economic parasitism.The essence of this approach is to focus the business entirely on the most profitable lines of business, and leave the less profitable sections entirely.

For instance, although there has been something of a renaissance in DIY electronics in the last ten years, before that it was quite difficult to find potentiometers and stomp switches in small quantity. This was because those were specialty items, sold only in low quantities to individuals, and even if the price per unit was quite high, the overall return to the seller was smaller than selling in 1000 unit batches. The MBA response was not to raise the unit price to ensure a profit on small quantities, it was to discontinue small quantity sales entirely.  Each product a business sold was reviewed to see if it produced the minimum profit margin and total profit that the MBA thought was needed, and anything not making the cut was discontinued entirely. It amounted to practicing business as though the customer didn't matter; in fact, one of the mantras of the parasitic MBA is that "there are customers you don't want".

This view of how a business should run pervaded the business world as the lesser-quality MBAs did in fact produce short-term increases in profits by cutting off the customers that were undesirable in their view. It's this myopic view of business and customers I refer to as "MBA disease". It's almost the exact opposite of what (for example) Small Bear and the other specialized suppliers to effects makers do.

Infection with MBA disease can cause some odd things to happen. When a brand name becomes worth something on its own - in the case I was referring to, "Dale" - the house MBAs may notice this and decide to get back some of the money that's been invested in making the name synonymous with "good" by farming out some or all of the actual production of the goods to somewhere else, cutting the cost of the goods and getting back a premium price, at least until the buyers catch on. By then, the MBA reasons to themselves quietly, they personally will look good, probably be promoted to some other position, and the poor slob who takes over their current job will have to cope with the results falling on their head. Back at Three Initial Corporation I saw several generations of this happen. It would have been funny if it were not so bad for long term business.

I assume from what you are all saying that even carbon resistors instead of metal will not make any difference in guitar application circuits including tube amps? I have always used metal ones because usually that's all that is available. I use 2watt metal for tube amps.

I did evaluate this from the technical perspective, and wrote up the results to put them on geofex. I keep recommending that any musical electronics hacker read geofex - all of it - just for insights like this. The short answer is that there *is* a tonal/sonic effect of using carbon *composition* resistors in very specific situations in tube amps. However, this is not true of carbon film, so saying "carbon" doesn't get you to the right answer.

All resistors produce thermal noise, an unavoidable result of physics. Carbon composition resistors and to some extent carbon film resistors have what's called "excess noise", more hiss than is cause by heat. This happens at all signal levels, so they will be noisier, especially carbon comp, than devices like metal film or wirewound. In low voltage circuits, the slight tonal effect of carbon composition is too small to be noticeable. It's only when a carbon comp is handling a signal which swings 100V or so that you get the good effect, and this happens in only a few places in a tube amp even.

This is another case where a little knowledge is a dangerous thing. Carbon comp can, in very, very specific situations contribute a sound advantage in addition to excess noise. Without the knowledge of how this happens, it gets enshrined in myth as "Carbon Comp = Good!".