GGG Red Llama Clone

[meowadishi]

Hello.

I built a GGG Red Llama clone a couple of years ago.  I have since re-cased it after having it sit around.  Well I was messing with it and noticed/remembered that the when turning the drive knob clockwise, somewhere around 3 o clock the pot seems to not add any more "drive".  So there is a good 15% of the pot that is ineffective...

What gives?

[stringsthings]

Hello.

I built a GGG Red Llama clone a couple of years ago.  I have since re-cased it after having it sit around.  Well I was messing with it and noticed/remembered that the when turning the drive knob clockwise, somewhere around 3 o clock the pot seems to not add any more "drive".  So there is a good 15% of the pot that is ineffective...

What gives?

the Red Llama appears to be using two 4049 inverter/buffer gain stages ... the first 4049 section has variable gain ( the drive control ) and the second section has fixed gain .... your clone is probably working .... you may not be able to perceive any audible difference when the drive control nears it's maximum ....

what we hear is a combination of input signal --> circuit --> output amplification ....

if you have access to a signal generator and a 'scope, you can verify the circuit "by the numbers" ....  

or  

take your pedal to a guitar store and try it with a nice single-coil guitar and a fairly loud amplifier ... this can be seriously rewarding ... to get a 3rd party POV, ask someone at the store to play the guitar/pedal/amp while you listen ...  

[add4]

Hello.

I built a GGG Red Llama clone a couple of years ago.  I have since re-cased it after having it sit around.  Well I was messing with it and noticed/remembered that the when turning the drive knob clockwise, somewhere around 3 o clock the pot seems to not add any more "drive".  So there is a good 15% of the pot that is ineffective...

What gives?

the Red Llama appears to be using two 4049 inverter/buffer gain stages ... the first 4049 section has variable gain ( the drive control ) and the second section has fixed gain .... your clone is probably working .... you may not be able to perceive any audible difference when the drive control nears it's maximum ....

what we hear is a combination of input signal --> circuit --> output amplification ....

if you have access to a signal generator and a 'scope, you can verify the circuit "by the numbers" ....  

or  

take your pedal to a guitar store and try it with a nice single-coil guitar and a fairly loud amplifier ... this can be seriously rewarding ... to get a 3rd party POV, ask someone at the store to play the guitar/pedal/amp while you listen ...  

Not really on the topic, i'm sorry about that, but i built a red llama clone and i would like LESS gain. i really like the small crunch i get when the drive is all the way down, but i'd love to go cleaner. Do you think i could try to lower the resitor that fixes the gain to the second stage to lower distortion? that would affect the whole cirtuit then?
i'd love to keep the same max gain, and have the possibility to go lower too.

Sorry if that drifts too much from the original subject, if yes i'll make a dedicated post for it.

[esdiezy28]

@ add4- Yes, you should be able to change the resistor in the second gain stage to achieve less gain. Have you thought about installing another pot in place of the resistor? This would allow you to dial in less gain, as you said you would like, while still not detracting from the max gain available. Hope that helps, ToNy

[meowadishi]

Yeah I was thinking that any difference is inaudible.  The "max" that I do hear is pretty awesome and usually more than enough.  I guess I am just a little bummed that physically there seems to be more.  Just not sonically.

Now add4 did bring up a good point.  What if I lowered the gain then I should maybe be able to get the physical feeling of the drive cranked.  Right?

So what resistor number would this be?

[stringsthings]

... What if I lowered the gain then I should maybe be able to get the physical feeling of the drive cranked.  Right?

yes

So what resistor number would this be?

that's difficult to know for certain ... because it depends on your individual situation .... if you replace the 1M resistor ( R3 ) with a 1M linear taper pot, you can measure where the point of maximum audible gain is, and then replace the pot with that value resistance .... before measuring, turn the gain control ( R8 ) all the way up

for example, if it was 1/2 way on the pot, the resistor would be about 500k, 3/4 would be about 750k

you could also replace R3 with a 1M trimpot , and set that to the desired resistance ....

http://www.generalguitargadgets.com/pdf/ggg_whrl_sc.pdf?phpMyAdmin=78482479fd7e7fc3768044a841b3e85a

[PRR]

> bummed that physically there seems to be more.  Just not sonically.

1) Most pots have 5%-10% "no change" zones at the ends.

2) What is the difference in loudness between 100% and 85%? Practically none. 1.4db, where 1db is just-maybe audible on pure steady tone and 3db is often not noticed in normal speech/music signals.

The way it works, it would need major re-design to "make something serious happen" in the last 10%-20% rotation.