Best pedal to build to get Duane Allman/Dicky Betts tones?

[Henry89789]

I have been thinking about  an ambitious project to build and am considering a tube driver that uses a 12 ax7 tube.... but I also want the pedal to have properties that help produce the tones that Dickey Betts and Duane Allman get in the Fillmore East version of the song "In Memory of Elizabeth Reed". I am not sure who does it ( I have always thought that I was Duane Allman) but there are a series of beautifully sustained notes in that song that I want to try to get. Those warm, sustained Les Paul notes are what I would like the pedal to produce (or allow the player to produce). I have the Les Paul.

Can you all recommend a DIY pedal that will get the desired warm, sustained LP tones?    I would prefer a build  that involves a tube (just because it is cooler and more sophisticated and ambitious).  Also important for me is that there be a lot of  documentation available, i.e., schematic, layout, instructions, parts list,  etc.   Thanks in advance for any suggestions and information you all can provide.

[petemoore]

Can you all recommend a DIY pedal that will get the desired warm, sustained LP tones?    
 Any one of the booster/overdrives might fit the bill.
 What makes those tones is mostly what the pedal [do you know what Dicky or either the Brother was using?] is plugged in to. More specifically the output amplification, speakers and cabinet. The Marshall preamps used didn't really contribute much distortion other than driving the output tubes hard, the preamps on 'old tube stuff' [my preference as far as tube platforms go] were often very clean amplification and PI. Much work has been done to distort preamp tubes in a pleasing manner, if I could define 'pleasing' [don't use 'em anymore] in 'distorting pre-amplification' it would have chosen components for distorting the electronic analog signal..Jfets, CMOS..and the circuit wouldn't end up as a 'preselection', it'd be 'the winner of the 'pre-circuit-race'...ie two or more 'flexible circuits' would be competing for preboost/OD duties.
 Having done that: "Stratoblaster Booster"...into 'what'?...a tube amp and 'superspeaker'.
 Mind that the amplifier and speaker 'got expensiver' as various platforms and cabinets and speakers were 'interviewed' for these positions.
  I would prefer a build  that involves a tube (just because it is cooler and more sophisticated and ambitious).
 I chose similar reasons before I understood why I would want the amplifier to be output tube style/driving a substantial cabinet/speakers, [wetness like reverb is a must for these tones], pushed hard enough to make the speakers, cabinet, and output amplifier to: ''actively influence voicing while allowing the player to have dynamic control over compressing and distorting. It would have behouved me to have understood this before buying and building so many circuits to get 'that' sound.

[petemoore]

  That^ said, Once there's a 'what' to plug the pedal into, the pedal will define itself 1000% bester than any 'preselection'.
  What 'it' will sound like is best described as an amalgum of components having 'static influence' or 'interactive dynamics' which make 'tone' of sound.
  Speaker/amp interactions making a large contribution to the character of the sound [interactive dynamics allows 'pushing' the amp/speaker to compress/distort and frequency shape the sound differently during attack transients and sustains.
  Speaker/amp works differently than a circuit which puts 'static influences' such as fixed freqeuncy shaping and compression/distortion 'ceilings' that are solid/hard...instead of 'spongy' [Cmos can do a darn convincing 'fake-tube-sponge' though].
  Gotta start somewhere..simple is a good place to start building pedals:
If the amp basically clean..a Stratoblaster [or other booster] might get some comp/distortion from a speaker.
  Use the booster to push a
2 CMOS Overdrive something or 'similar'...see Tube Sound Fuzz [and derivitave projects, I had a compressey Jfet @ low voltage feeding a Jfet booster that overdrove the CMOS thingy, it was a remarkable tube-tone-circuit...lotta messin' around...I soon wished it still worked, and promised I'd build myself another...one day.
3..not so simple, not pedal friendly [large project because of the tank], but tube reverb project, it's nice but...the pedal gets the reverb position because it is so friendly and easy to work with.

[petemoore]

  These particular recordings are very well known as having produced some of the 'best' [very popular: the old vynil records play extra nice] ''live tone sound'' one could hope for from clean stereo.
  Copping that in a pedal would require verboten wordage for an ABB thread, ie Digital..very useful when a tank-verb isn't available.

[petemoore]

   Edit: Cut and pasted to PM.

[Henry89789]

petemoore:

Thanks for the replies. I think I am going to try the Tube Sound Fuzz.  After researching it I learned it was a Craig Anderton project from his book which I found online. So I have all the info  necessary to build it.

[george]

I read somewhere that Dicky and Duane used 50 watt marshalls (back in the day these would have been non-master volume I suppose) played through backless cabinets.   

In a venue like Fillmore East I'm sure they had no problem cranking them up enough to get that long singing sustain without being excessively loud for the size of the auditorium ....   

[joegagan]

duane also liked fuzzfaces. i can hear fuzzface all over that recording.

[DougH]

I don't think Dickie used anything but Duane's sounds like a fuzzface. Listen to the debut studio album and you will hear the same sort of thing - two distinctly different sounds.

[jazbo8]

Dallas Arbiter Fuzz Face (used old 9V batteries because he liked the sound they made)

More here http://www.uberproaudio.com/who-plays-what/392-duane-allman-guitar-gear-rig...

Jaz

[Puguglybonehead]

You should have a look at a couple of the Marshall-inspired pedals at runoffgroove. I would think that Duane Allman's sound was definitely due, in a large part, to his use of Les Pauls in combination with Marshall 50-watt bass amps. Even though the bass amps were slightly lower gain, in the preamp section, I think that a pedal like the "Eighteen" or even the "Thor" might help to get you in the ballpark, tone-wise. Perhaps, with the gain dialed back a bit. You could always add a fuzz-face in your pedal chain in front of it. (but make sure it's an NPN version, not a PNP)

http://www.runoffgroove.com/eighteen.html

http://www.runoffgroove.com/thor.html

[petemoore]

  Ge PNP, Si NPN, Ge NPN...confused ?
   A nice solid ground on yer-basic FF circuit is recommended.
  If a PNP Positive Gnd. is needed and wired right, it works..fine, despite the 'unusual' user requirements, check for non-shorting, correct polarity conditions on 'everything' before applying power to 'it', it will fight with -gnd. within the power supply if it gets the chance.

[DougH]

Dallas Arbiter Fuzz Face (used old 9V batteries because he liked the sound they made)

More here http://www.uberproaudio.com/who-plays-what/392-duane-allman-guitar-gear-rig...

Jaz

I'd like to know where these kinds of sites get their info from. This article is immediately suspect because they refer to the Allman Bros as a "southern rock" band.;-) People who call the Allman Bros "southern rock" don't -get- the Allman Bros. I would file this article under "internet hearsay" and tread carefully.