Silkscreen question

[vigilante397]

The debate about how to label and provide artwork for pedals has been going on for centuries (literally, centuries; google it). After a brief kerfuffle with paint markers when I was first starting I went to waterslides and never regretted it...until a couple weeks ago when I decided I wanted something more professional. I had heard mention of silk screening and decided I would investigate that. A quick google search revealed there were several silk screening companies in my area. I called all of them and was told by each one that they can do any kind of fabric but have never done aluminum and have no interest in "trying it out to see if it would work."

Does anyone do their own silkscreening for pedals? What kind of supplies (the cheaper the better) would one need to get started doing such a thing on one's own? And out of sheer curiosity, has anyone successfully found a company that will silkscreen pedals for them?

[wildebelor]

That is so frustrating! There is literally no reason why it wouldn't work - I've screened boards, boxes and plates before - not a problem!
If I was getting into this with no understanding of what was required, I would do a lot of reading first.
Buy a cheap all-in-one kit on ebay and go from there!

Test on scrap too!

Also, I've got all the mesh counts and particular angles that should be used for each colour if you're interested.
PM me and I can help you out.

[mth5044]

PPP will silkscreen for you. Not one offs, but not a huge quantity either.

EDIT: Oops, wait, it looks like they UV print now instead 

[commathe]

It's fairly easy to create your own screens. I'd check about ink though. The people you contacted may not be willing to try because they only stock inks for screen printing onto fabric

[eyeprod]

Hi, this is my first post.

I do silkscreening for extra money, but one-offs are not something I like to do. Because it's a multiple step process which takes time, it's rarely worth the effort to set everything up for a really small print run. So the price will always be higher per printed item on a small run.

The ink is most important. It's no big thing to print on metal, if it's smooth. I believe that an ink that is used for vinyl decals will also work on metal. It's solvent based ink. It's drippy and messy with a toxic smell. So then you need some more toxic stuff to clean it up with. This stuff dries in the air so you have to work quickly and clean it all up immediately afterwards. A utility sink would be crucial, and think about where you'll drain toxic liquids and dispose of cleanup trash. Note: dried ink isn't toxic.

You need a clean screen with a high mesh count, say 300 or more. The higher the tension of the mesh on the frame will result in a crisper print, i.e. you can make your own but it will likely turn out sloppy prints, and they're cheap to buy new. You need a squeegee of sorts that fits your screen to force the ink across the screen and through the screen openings, or the artwork that you burn into the screen. It's easy to do, but the artwork must be prepared in a certain way and when it's ready you'll have a positive transparency made to do the burn. To prep and burn you'll be in a darkroom. You need liquid emulsion that is UV sensitive and a special coating tool to apply a thin smooth coat of it on one side of the screen. Then you need a rack or a place to let it sit level and dry in the dark room. After it's really dry you can burn the image into it with a construction type work light of a couple hundred watts or more. The burn process takes a few minutes, and then, still preferrably in a dark room, you wash out the (artwork parts on the) screen with a pressure washer. Garden hose can work, but probably not very well with a high mesh count screen. This are all time sensitive steps and it's possible that you have to start all over again if something goes wrong. If successful, you dry the screen, then tape up the edges to keep the ink where you want it, and it's ready to print.

After all the setup it only takes a couple of seconds to do an actual print. All of the steps in the process leading up to this are easy to mess up and this step is just as critical. You'll probably want to do several test prints on some similar material so you don't screw up your beloved pedal. I can tell you more details if you're really interested, but I think that gives an idea of the time, skill, and materials involved.

[davent]

Good tutorial at Madbeans on silkscreening pedals.

http://www.madbeanpedals.com/forum/index.php?topic=14597.0
dave

[Ice-9]

I've done quite a bit of one off work and my own repeated pedal designs with silk screen, the most difficult part I found was sourcing a good ink that is suitable for pedal printing. 99.9% of screen printing info on the internet or from printing services is about T-shirts and no one really has any answer on other subtrates.

I found finding a suitable ink in the Uk I can use but it has its pro's and con's ,  

Pro  - It's sovent based and very permament. (see con)
Con - Nothing seems to remove it, apart from acetone which can wipe it straight off with one quick wipe. (cellulose thinners doesn't touch it)
Pro - It doesn't how lock the screen is left as Acetone will clean it out straight away.

I have been trying to get hold of Nazdar 9600 ink as this is meant to be the ink to have but in the UK It's just not to be found.

There are some great tutorials on youtube and it can be reasonably cheap to do screen printing as for very little money you can make your own press, I would never buy one of those simple presses that are seen for about £350 when one can be made for £25.

[vigilante397]

Excellent responses, thank you all. I especially liked the Madbean tutorial, the results look AMAZING. I can understand not wanting to do small batches (I only have 6 pedals I want done right now), and it seems like doing it yourself is a little tricky and expensive to get started but well worth it when you're really into it.

One of the silkscreening shops I talked to suggested I try a sign making shop, of which there are a surprising number in my relatively small town. The very first one I talked to said they could absolutely do it but it wouldn't be silkscreening, they would print directly on the box with "vinyl ink." They said it wouldn't be very expensive (it seems I'll have to go to their office and physically show them what a hammond enclosure looks like before they can give me an exact price) and I hope to have it done within the next week or so.

Thanks again for all your help, and I'll likely get my silkscreening setup together right after I get my powder coating setup together

[Ice-9]

Excellent responses, thank you all. I especially liked the Madbean tutorial, the results look AMAZING. I can understand not wanting to do small batches (I only have 6 pedals I want done right now), and it seems like doing it yourself is a little tricky and expensive to get started but well worth it when you're really into it.

One of the silkscreening shops I talked to suggested I try a sign making shop, of which there are a surprising number in my relatively small town. The very first one I talked to said they could absolutely do it but it wouldn't be silkscreening, they would print directly on the box with "vinyl ink." They said it wouldn't be very expensive (it seems I'll have to go to their office and physically show them what a hammond enclosure looks like before they can give me an exact price) and I hope to have it done within the next week or so.

Thanks again for all your help, and I'll likely get my silkscreening setup together right after I get my powder coating setup together

Great stuff, let us know the outcome of the printing please.

[vigilante397]

I guess I kind of forgot to let everyone know how it went It turns out what the sign company meant was cut out some cheap vinyl lettering and stick it to my boxes. This is the box they did for free to show me what it would look like:



The reason I was having them do it for me in the first place was because I wanted a very professional look for eight pedals I was selling. I ended up pulling off the letters, sanding it back down to the metal, and going back to my waterslides and clearcoat:

[Mufftastic]

Have you considered t shirt transfers (google kit Rae's big muff page he has a nice tutorial).  I've gotten great results.  The trick is to buy avery dark t shirt transfers.  It's easier than screen printing and looks better (IMHO) than water slides.

[vigilante397]

Have you considered t shirt transfers (google kit Rae's big muff page he has a nice tutorial).  I've gotten great results.  The trick is to buy avery dark t shirt transfers.  It's easier than screen printing and looks better (IMHO) than water slides.

I'll definitely look into that. I'm always interested in ways to make my boxes look better Do you have any pictures of some you've done with transfers?

[peps1]

I guess I kind of forgot to let everyone know how it went It turns out what the sign company meant was cut out some cheap vinyl lettering and stick it to my boxes. This is the box they did for free to show me what it would look like:

If you got access to someone with a vinyl cutter like that sign shop, its really easy to use the vinyl decals to make a silk screen for printing.....and much more time and cost effective for one ofs and small batches as you don't have to use photo emulation and expose transparency.

I have done a really basic guide about it here

http://www.instructables.com/id/Screen-printing-with-vinyl/

For printing on pedals, Mercury Gloss inks are the best for the DIY set up as they air cure at room temperature, and the ink can be thinned and equipment cleaned with just White spirit (or think you call it mineral spirits in the US of A).

[Mufftastic]

Have you considered t shirt transfers (google kit Rae's big muff page he has a nice tutorial).  I've gotten great results.  The trick is to buy avery dark t shirt transfers.  It's easier than screen printing and looks better (IMHO) than water slides.

I'll definitely look into that. I'm always interested in ways to make my boxes look better Do you have any pictures of some you've done with transfers?

I posted this thread on the gear page about my latest build.  I used avery dark t-shirt transfers.  The graphics and text are all printed on the transfer and then ironed on and clear coated. 

[Mufftastic]

Sorry here is the link

http://www.thegearpage.net/board/showthread.php?t=1453341

[vigilante397]

Sorry here is the link

http://www.thegearpage.net/board/showthread.php?t=1453341

I'm pretty well sold. I'll be trying those on my next build

[Ice-9]

I guess I kind of forgot to let everyone know how it went It turns out what the sign company meant was cut out some cheap vinyl lettering and stick it to my boxes. This is the box they did for free to show me what it would look like:

If you got access to someone with a vinyl cutter like that sign shop, its really easy to use the vinyl decals to make a silk screen for printing.....and much more time and cost effective for one ofs and small batches as you don't have to use photo emulation and expose transparency.

I have done a really basic guide about it here

http://www.instructables.com/id/Screen-printing-with-vinyl/

For printing on pedals, Mercury Gloss inks are the best for the DIY set up as they air cure at room temperature, and the ink can be thinned and equipment cleaned with just White spirit (or think you call it mineral spirits in the US of A).

I use the mercury inks on my prints, I did a couple yesterday as in the picture below the picture is a little blurry but the pedals are sharp. The mercury inks are ok  but i'm looking for something better. Regards cleanup I tried white spirit and it doesn't touch it. Acetone is what I use but the only real problem with the mercury ink is that no matter how long the ink is dry for the acetone just wipes it straight off.



I might try the vinyl as a screen next time as it a long process with the emulsion when your in a hurry the vinyl could be a good idea.