Possible BBD score!!!

[Scruffie]

What would you do with them?  Would you consider them serviceable for an ultrashort offset delay to yield TZF?

I have consisdered using them for this, i've never got around to actually testing them out but I have been meaning to.
Saying that I did use a MN3206 (256 Stage) for a flanger test and it wasn't all that wonderful.

I do have some form of info for them, don't remember where I got this, I have a snippet of datasheet somewhere too.

DIP-14: DIP-14:
Udd A t1 Udd A t1
14 13 12 11 10 9 8 14 13 12 11 10 9 8


1 2 3 4 5 6 7 1 2 3 4 5 6 7
t2 E Gnd t2 E Gnd


DIP-8 ist Subset davon, Pin 1 vom DIP-8 entspricht Pin 2 vom DIP-14. DIP-8 is subset of them, pin 1 of DIP-8 corresponds to pin 2 of DIP-14. Und And
falls es das Metallgehäuse sein soll: if it is to be the metal casing:

TO-77: TO-77:
2 t2 2 t2
3 E 3:00 E
4 Gnd 4 Gnd
6 t1 6 t1
7 A 7A
8 Udd 8 Udd

t1,t2 = Takt (5-500kHz) t1, t2 = clock (5-500kHz)
E, A = Ein-/Ausgang, E, A = input / output,
Udd = max. Udd = max. -30V -30V
GND = Masse GND = Ground

HTH HTH

Gruß Greeting

Werner Werner

8pin

pin 2 : t2
pin 3 : IN
pin 4 : V(+)
pin 5 : t1
pin 6 : Out
pin 7 : V(-)

14PIN

pin 3 : t2
pin 4 : IN
pin 5 : V(+)
pin 10 : t1
pin 11 : Out
pin 12 : V(-)

[Fender3D]

I have consisdered using them for this, i've never got around to actually testing them out but I have been meaning to.
Saying that I did use a MN3206 (256 Stage) for a flanger test and it wasn't all that wonderful.

I do have some form of info for them, don't remember where I got this, I have a snippet of datasheet somewhere too.

DIP-14: DIP-14:
Udd A t1 Udd A t1
14 13 12 11 10 9 8 14 13 12 11 10 9 8


1 2 3 4 5 6 7 1 2 3 4 5 6 7
t2 E Gnd t2 E Gnd


DIP-8 ist Subset davon, Pin 1 vom DIP-8 entspricht Pin 2 vom DIP-14. DIP-8 is subset of them, pin 1 of DIP-8 corresponds to pin 2 of DIP-14. Und And
falls es das Metallgehäuse sein soll: if it is to be the metal casing:

TO-77: TO-77:
2 t2 2 t2
3 E 3:00 E
4 Gnd 4 Gnd
6 t1 6 t1
7 A 7A
8 Udd 8 Udd

t1,t2 = Takt (5-500kHz) t1, t2 = clock (5-500kHz)
E, A = Ein-/Ausgang, E, A = input / output,
Udd = max. Udd = max. -30V -30V
GND = Masse GND = Ground

HTH HTH

Gruß Greeting

Werner Werner

8pin

pin 2 : t2
pin 3 : IN
pin 4 : V(+)
pin 5 : t1
pin 6 : Out
pin 7 : V(-)

14PIN

pin 3 : t2
pin 4 : IN
pin 5 : V(+)
pin 10 : t1
pin 11 : Out
pin 12 : V(-) 

I'd swore Scruffie is possessed 

[12Bass]

I can only ASSume that these are functional as they were packaged and protected quite well however, it would still be nice to be able to test them without building 3 seperate circuits and/or designing a daughter board to plug into an existing effect 

Provided that the pinouts are the same, all three types should be able to be checked in the same test circuit.  The only difference is that the delay time will vary due to number of stages.  It should be possible to build a fairly simple clock to test them out.

When the SAD1024A/MN3010 are run in parallel-multiplex, it gives the same delay time of 512 stages, but with double the number of samples per clock (because it interleaves the output of both 512-stage halves together).  The doubled sample rate serves to increase the fidelity of the reconstructed signal.  Clocking a parallel-multiplex SAD1024A at ~100 kHz to 1 MHz produces surprisingly clear-sounding results.

[12Bass]

Parallel-multiplex is sort of like the figure below, except that it shows digital samples, while BBDs produce analog samples.

[logich]

Note that the 8-pin SAD512D is almost the same as the RD5107, but where the 5107 shows N/C for pin 3, the SAD512D shows a complementary output that has to be level balanced against the other output.  Perhaps that task is accomplished less effectively inside the 5107 than it is outside the 512, leading to the noise Ron mentions.

I have got a roland RS-09 organ/strings of first version with a broken chorus. I discovered that only 1 chorus line is working instead of 4.
each line uses SAD512 chip, so I ordered a RD5107 from ebay installed sockets on the rs-09 chorus board and tryed RD5107ANP, but direct replacement just do nothing, no sound at output at all.. when I put the working one of SAD512 in a socket of any line it works good for all 4 sections.
Anybody have any suggestions about SAD512D replacement by RD5107A in that place, schematic of roland rs-09 can be found here http://manuals.fdiskc.com/tree/Roland/

[Govmnt_Lacky]

Note that the 8-pin SAD512D is almost the same as the RD5107, but where the 5107 shows N/C for pin 3, the SAD512D shows a complementary output that has to be level balanced against the other output.  Perhaps that task is accomplished less effectively inside the 5107 than it is outside the 512, leading to the noise Ron mentions.

I have got a roland RS-09 organ/strings of first version with a broken chorus. I discovered that only 1 chorus line is working instead of 4.
each line uses SAD512 chip, so I ordered a RD5107 from ebay installed sockets on the rs-09 chorus board and tryed RD5107ANP, but direct replacement just do nothing, no sound at output at all.. when I put the working one of SAD512 in a socket of any line it works good for all 4 sections.
Anybody have any suggestions about SAD512D replacement by RD5107A in that place, schematic of roland rs-09 can be found here http://manuals.fdiskc.com/tree/Roland/

The major difference between the SAD512D and the R5107 is the way the input is biased and the acceptable clock frequency range limits. The SAD chips can handle clock frequencies of 1.5KHz to 1.5MHz. The R5107 can only handle 500Hz to 1MHz.

Also, the SAD signal input is biased according to the EXTERNALLY supplied Vdd (up to 15V) where as the R5107 input is biased according to the INTERNALLY supplied Vbb, which is equal to Vdd - 2V.

So in laymens terms... the 5107 is NOT a drop-in replacement for the SAD512D. At least not without redesigning the input biasing scheme.

[Joe Kramer]

Congrats and nice score Mr. Lacky!  You could do some fun things with those 512-stagers, since that's an ideal yet  hard-to-come-by number of stages for chorus and flanging. . . .

Saying that I did use a MN3206 (256 Stage) for a flanger test and it wasn't all that wonderful.

Actually, the MN3206 is a 128-stage device.  I've got a TZF flanger on my breadboard right now with an MN3009, which is a 256-stage device.  Sounds nice.

TDA2108 1 x 2048 cells, P-channel MOSFET tetrode, -18 V supply voltage, symmetrical clock 100 kHz, 12 kHz bandwidth, 1.5 V maximum signal, 78 dB signal / noise ratio, distortion 0.5%, 1,400 pF clock tax, special DIL-16, Philips

Thanks for posting that data Mark!  I've got a few of the TDA2108 scavenged from a Johannus organ amplifier.  Essentially the same specs as an MN3008.  Sort of disappointing in that other TDA chips like the TDA1022 are spec'd to accept a 500K clock, which makes things much easier, flangeristically speaking.

BTW, the main advantage of parallel multiplexing BBDs is that for each clock phase you have two different samples in time, whereas in serial operation for each clock phase you have two samples from the exact same moment in time.  The practical upshot is that the Nyquist cut-off point is increased to being equal the clock frequency instead of being half of it, as normally.  You can also look at it as getting twice the delay time at a given clock frequency, but either way, you are getting twice the signal resolution and frequency response.  Scott Stites (diyfreaque) educated me on all this and has done some very interesting things--a work-alike of the hallowed Marshall TIme Modulator to be exact.    

Joe



   

[Mark Hammer]

Joey!!  How ya doin' guy?  Long time no see.

Yeah, I think the sweet spot for BBDs, flangeristically speaking ( ) is in the 256-512 stage zone.  A 128-stage device will certainly let one achieve ultra-short delay times, but doesn't have enough stages to produce long-enough delays to achieve a majestic sweep.  I mean, you could probably slow it down to get 8-10msec but you'd need to drop the clock and necessary filtering low enough that you'd lose much of the bandwidth required to make a flanger sound great.

I still want to get my hands on an MN3214, that has taps at 140, 377, 621, 798, and 1024 stages.  The potential to be the heart of one of the most kickass flanger/chorus designs of all time.

[Joe Kramer]

Joey!!  How ya doin' guy?  Long time no see.

I'm okay, thanks!  Hope you're well too!  I remember fondly the meeting of the Three Stompbox Musketeers . . . another's long over due!

I still want to get my hands on an MN3214, that has taps at 140, 377, 621, 798, and 1024 stages.  The potential to be the heart of one of the most kickass flanger/chorus designs of all time.

Not sure I've ever seen an MN3214--nice short delays there.  IIRC, a while back some MN3011s were in circulation around here.  Longer delays but might not mind being clocked a bit higher.  I used to scavenge those chips from old broken Rockmans until their vintage value skyrocketed.  Meanwhile, I'll keep an eye out for that MN3214 . . . or maybe Govmnt Lacky will have another lucky trash dig!

[Jdansti]

So I was digging through some items that were marked as trash here at work (Yes... I was bored and going through someone's trash, so what of it?!)

I'm not judging as long as you didn't eat anything you found.