The power of words in debugging

[Mark Hammer]

Some smart stuff in there.  "Intelligence" IS a social effect that people mistake for personal.

Thanks for that. 

[defaced]

> my "noise" = your "buzz".  

In english, "noise" covers a LOT of sounds. My neighbor makes a lot of noise. One day it is motor-whirr and rock-on-iron racket. Another day it's banging. And then there's his leaf-blower. I need to know the difference to know to cut the cord off his grinder or cut the handles off his hammers or steal his gasoline.

Likewise, in audio diagnosis, buzz squeal pop etc is a next-step to a fix.

In English?  Really?  Ya don't say.  And here I was thinking my whole life I've been speaking Swahili.  Thanks for clearing that up for me.  I was so lost without your guidance.

Ok, sarcasm off.  Since this isn't the first time you've been condescending toward me, I figure I'll return the favor.  Remember long long ago in a land far far away when you learned something about writing?  What was the first rule?  Know your audience.  Now I'm sure since we're on a forum where people learn, and the best I can figure you're an old hand engineer, you assume that most people here know less than you.  Fine, I'll take that for an extent, the problem is that there are many learned individuals on this forum, myself included (welding engineer).  I'm well aware about the different meanings of words, I learned it when I was a child and I certainly don't need you to explain it to me - especially after I already told you why I chose the word I did.  So you can take your condescending attitude and kindly go compress silicates.  I don't care for you to comment on anything I write if that's the attitude you're going to bring to the table.  Was that clear enough to cut through your neighbor's noise?

[Ronan]

defaced, I really don't believe PRR was condescending towards you. I have seen him help a lot of people, with lots of patience, he has a lot of time for people on this forum.

[LucifersTrip]

yes, I believe "In english" was misinterpreted. I understood it to simply mean "in today's society"

[Seljer]

yes, I believe "In english" was misinterpreted. I understood it to simply mean "in today's society"

In english, as opposed to engineer jargon 

[markeebee]

@ defaced

This is an open forum, remember.  Any post you make can be read by everyone, and so need to be comprehensible to everyone.

So PRR's post wasn't necessarily addressed to you, it was addressed to us all.  While you may have found it condescending, some of us may not possess such a huge intellect and are grateful when things are explained in plain English.

[amptramp]

What I took PRR's statement to mean was that the English language has a catch-all noun called "noise".  Within that, there are a lot of descriptive nouns like hum, buzz, drip, ring, howl etc.  We had a General Radio applications book used with their sound level meters that had a page of nouns categorized as noise.  The only one they missed was "schplat", the sound you make when your parachute doesn't open.

I have never seen PRR say anything condescending.  He provides patient explanations of a lot of things to newbs and engineers alike.  When writing to this audience, you have to use the drill sargeant's "This here's a rifle" type of basic explanation for everything.  If I had his patience, I might do the same thing, but I was never cut out to be a teacher.

[defaced]

All very valid points.  And I too have learned alot from Paul's posts, for which I am appreciative.  Consider the following anecdote regarding communication/teaching.

One of my hero's in my field is Clearance E Jackson.  He is one of the founding fathers of modern welding engineering.  I never had the opportunity to meet the man, but my boss sat in his class at OSU some 30 years ago.  He recounts that Jackson had an ability to talk to anyone at any level, PhD, new welder, anyone regarding the topic.  He was able to do this because he understood his audience and spoke at their level.  Not above them so they felt stupid, and not below them so they felt insulted, but directly at their level.   

Now consider the post I am taking issue with.  I'll assume all of us here have at least a basic grasp on the English language.  Now who here doesn't understand that some words can mean many things?  Probably no one.  So why explain it? Probably because he has personal experience with chasing annoying problems because people are not concise with their language.  Fine, I'm cool with that.  Lets take that and work with it.  Take his previous post "BAN the word noise" and say he wanted to write an editorial on that.  Fine, that's totally cool.  Would you quote someone's reply and write that editorial to them?  Would you put a something up front of everything like "Using this as a jumping off point for a rant..."?  See, when someone quotes my posts, I usually interpret it as them speaking to me.  Seeing as how his post didn't include anything to indicate that he was speaking to anyone else, or the forum at large, I read it as him speaking to me.  Considering he was not speaking to me at my level, and I didn't ask for help or otherwise solicit for critique, I did not take it kindly. 

So... don't take my post as some bullshit knee jerk reaction forum posturing junk post.  There are many fully thought out reasons for it. 

[pinkjimiphoton]

mike,
not everyone who is on this forum is fluent in english to begin with.

i don't see paul as being condescending, and haven't. on rare occaision, i've seen what appeared to be a "twinkle" in his eye, but his criticisms, at least the ones i've seen have always been honest and straight up.

i don't believe there's any malice man. i'm often wrong, all the time, even, but it seems to me a lot of the more learned guys here speak on multiple levels..they innately understand stuff we less experienced guys may not grasp, but the fact they take the time to educate dumb assholes like me with as much patience as they do makes me appreciate their understanding all the more.

when paul wrote "in english" i think he just meant to be plain and easily understandable, as you said, to "the room" he was playing.

just my two cents. he has always been very kind to me, personally, even when i am so lost i couldn't find my own wiener with a flashlight, both hands, and a homing pigeon 

the internet blows like that sometimes...especially when stressed out, it's sometimes easy to misunderstand someone else.

my advice, as always, is don't sweat the petty stuff, just pet the sweaty stuff.

peace.

[Perrow]

... even when i am so lost i couldn't find my own wiener with a flashlight, both hands, and a homing pigeon  

Apparently Rob (Deadastronaut) has had success using a fork when he's lost his, YMMV

[haveyouseenhim]

... even when i am so lost i couldn't find my own wiener with a flashlight, both hands, and a homing pigeon  

Apparently Rob (Deadastronaut) has had success using a fork when he's lost his, YMMV

That's how he became Barbara 

[PRR]

> There are many fully thought out reasons for it.

Understood.

Topic is "The power of words....".

[pinkjimiphoton]

well played, paul!

[deadastronaut]

@pelle/mike...

don't worry, i have an alooooominum etched one now in the shape of a uni-bit... (ahhhh the power of  aloooominum ) my missus likes it..