Pricing your builds

[Perrow]

Much in line with what others say here, double parts cost at least, and don't forget those drills that keep breaking and the paint and decals.

[stallik]

Selling my pedals?  or giving them away or just lending them? Wish I was at that stage. I'm still having to pour too much time and effort into them. Of the last 10, just 1 is on my pedalboard ( Zendrive - truly amazing sound ) so they're not even being used. The rest are gathering dust - Dr Boogie, BOR, SHO, Little Angel, Valvecaster, Twin Valvecaster, Orange Squeezer, various combinations.. They all sound good, some great but I just can't bring myself to part with them.
My latest, a Mayqueen doesn't  even sound like it should - it sounds awesome but I'm having to build a second one to get the sound right as I don't want to risk changing it!
This hobby is truly an addiction for me.....

[LucifersTrip]

I think the price should depend on how good it sounds and how easily & what price a comparable item can be bought

In other words, I would charge higher for a killer sounding boost that cannot be easily purchased (not in modern production & not sold by bigger companies), than an average sounding phaser/delay/trem than you can buy a modern version of cheaply from a bigger company (ie, Danelectro copies of vintage stuff)

How great it sounds is a big deal. Most experienced builders' pedals sound way better now than they did when they first started. A beginner can buy a distortion/phaser/delay/etc PCB, paint by numbers and get a good sound, but someone experienced can tweak it and get a great sound.

[Canucker]

my advice would be never build something for someone that you don't want one of yourself or have already successfully built for yourself. I live an hour car ride away from the place I buy supplies and I've gone insane twice now because they binned a resistor incorrectly....which meant once I couldn't finish my build because I didn't have values low enough to combine parts for the required value and the second time I did string things together as a temporary fix...which you don't want to do for someone else for obvious reasons.
If you stick to building vintage designs with rare parts I imagine you could do ok but right now I'm building a small clone and the amount of time its taking me I'd have to charge a fortune to cover my time...at least I'll be using the discontinued MN3007 chip and depth mod. I've had two people that I don't really know ask me to build them a reverb pedal....not gonna happen   but when you walk in a store and see a boost pedal for $158.99 (as I did last week) you just think man I could build those all day long and drive a car made of gold!!!

[Processaurus]

Usually I double or triple the parts cost, that ensures that I could build one for myself as well

That's a cool pricing scenario for making unique stuff for people you like, because making two of something is only about 1.5 times as much work as making one, as you only have to design it once, and order parts once, only scratch your head once.  Doubling parts cost means you built yours for free.

Honestly most times I've designed and built something outlandish and complicated for people that weren't good friends I've felt kind of screwed in the deal because I priced it too low.  Most people that want to commission something crazy lose interest when I tell it's going to cost a grip.  Some experienced musicians get it and don't mind because they genuinely require customized/high quality gear, those are great people to work for.

So if it's friends, double the price of parts etc.  If it's strangers charge them a grip.  You don't need to be the patron saint of people with GAS.  Don't worry, you'll still end up making less than minimum wage!

[Electron Tornado]

On the one hand, I'd like to think that my time is worth at least minimum wage.  On the other hand, the sort of commercial products you can pick up 2nd hand, in terrific shape, for a pittance, lead me to think that the purchaser should not be effectively overcharged for the fact that I don't have production methods nearly as efficient as big manufacturers.

Sure it may have taken me 6 hours to build something on perf, but it's built on perf for crying out loud.  I can't in all good conscience demand more money for a stupid fuzz that I had to make by hand (because I couldn't make it any other way) than a pedal of equal dependability and better construction quality made by a commercial company, just because I had to make it by hand. 

I have to disagree with you, Mark. Don't devalue your time simply because you don't have the production capabilities of a large manufacturer. The small, sometimes, one man shop is a selling point for custom, hand made, "boutique" pedals. You are taking the time to build a bit more carefully than a factory. I'm sure you understand that the large manufacturers have a large production capability the keep costs down since they build in large volume.

You make building by hand sound like a bad thing. So what if a circuit is built on perf? So were some of the earliest pedals from Electro Harmonix, if I recall. A few "boutique" pedals have also been done on perf. Why didn't you use a PCB? Because it's neither cost effective to make one nor have one (or more) made for you.

Remember, if someone asked you to build a pedal, they asked you, not one of the commercial companies.

[Electron Tornado]

you can never charge for breadboard time obviously, but even on a LOT of tried and tested circuits, i find i always have to have a tweak here n there,...for unity,tone, etc..

It depends on what that breadboard time was for. If it was to test transistors for a fuzz, for example, and then getting them biased correctly, then that's time worth charging for. If it's tweaking to meet a customer's request, then it's worth charging for. If it was time spent fiddling and developing something for yourself, but that someone else later asked you to build, then that development time is probably not something most here would charge for. To be clear, though, every big name producer will figure in development costs into their pedals, but they can spread that cost out over thousands of units.

[chromesphere]

I've often thought of starting a thread along the lines of "why do pedal builders under-sell their builds" but thought it may lead to a heated thread.  So thats the direction of my post here. 

As far as im concerned, i always undersell by builds.  I'm in my study, soldering away.  I can hear my wife playing with my 6 month old son and their both laughing and having fun.  I have sacrificed that time with my family to build this pedal.  Dont get me wrong, i enjoy building this stuff!  But theres no question, you make sacrifices.

But not only that.  We are a talented bunch.  Even the newbies here are skilled.  How many hours have you spent researching guitar effects / talking about guitar effects / solving guitar effect problems?  Comparing different components in a circuit?  Adding mods?  Breadboarding? Some of the builds i see on here are ingenius.  Some of the artwork, is just that.  It's art.  It pains me to think that i / we practically give this stuff away...Next time you price a pedal, think of all the headaches you've had building it. 

And please, for the love of god, back up your build with support.  The general impression i get from guitar players is, they dont have any faith in DIY builds.  You "take a risk" when you buy one.  I dont think it should be like that.  I dont sell that many pedals, but when i do i give the buyer my email address and tell them "any trouble MAKE SURE you tell me".  ANd im honest with them.  It's DIY.  Im not a factory!  I dont have 99.99% hit rate. But I'm proud of my work and i follow it up with support.  I sort of feel like im a representative of this community and i want to instill confidence with the buyer that we arent a bunch of rogues. Im talking 'random' buyers here of course.  My friends / family KNOW im a rogue

Thats just a few factors i consider when i sell a pedal though.  There are so many others to consider.  Your experience, your workmanship, after sales support, your unique mojo etc etc
Charge what you feel is fair and then, if your like me, someone that undersells, add a bit more
Paul

[Canucker]

Some people who ask you to build them something expect it at pawn shop prices of $50 then there are those that will ask you to do a simple mod to they're gear and offer you $40. So my advice is make sure not everyone is happy with your prices! Show them a build with the cheapest inputs, a non true bypass switch so no led, no jack for a power supply and an unpainted case or even a plastic one...and even no knobs.....then show them one with all the "extras"....ensure them it will sound the same and then announce the low price and the high price...they can decide what they want to spend. My family business use to be a custom framing art shop so I've dealt with every type of customer you can imagine for custom work. When you lay it out that way for people they get a better understanding of why something is cheaper or more expensive and it really opens they're eyes to the old "you get what you pay for" slogan.....the best way to get some more money for your work is a custom pain job. Its all about the look...show up your band name on your gear with a pro look to it that catches way more eyes at a gig then having a different fuzz then the opening act.

[haveyouseenhim]

Some people who ask you to build them something expect it at pawn shop prices of $50 then there are those that will ask you to do a simple mod to they're gear and offer you $40. So my advice is make sure not everyone is happy with your prices! Show them a build with the cheapest inputs, a non true bypass switch so no led, no jack for a power supply and an unpainted case or even a plastic one...and even no knobs.....then show them one with all the "extras"....ensure them it will sound the same and then announce the low price and the high price...they can decide what they want to spend. My family business use to be a custom framing art shop so I've dealt with every type of customer you can imagine for custom work. When you lay it out that way for people they get a better understanding of why something is cheaper or more expensive and it really opens they're eyes to the old "you get what you pay for" slogan.....the best way to get some more money for your work is a custom pain job. Its all about the look...show up your band name on your gear with a pro look to it that catches way more eyes at a gig then having a different fuzz then the opening act.

+1

Looks are everything with some people. I sold my 1590a Capt Kirk Phase 90 for $120 without the guy ever testing it. He was blinded by the looks. And I wasn't going to stop him

[CodeMonk]

Pretty much what everyone else said.
With a slight mod to parts costs.
As for that parts costs, I add what it cost to replace the parts used (x2 or 3). Prices may have changed since I bought those parts. Or maybe they aren't available anymore.

[Canucker]

Some people who ask you to build them something expect it at pawn shop prices of $50 then there are those that will ask you to do a simple mod to they're gear and offer you $40. So my advice is make sure not everyone is happy with your prices! Show them a build with the cheapest inputs, a non true bypass switch so no led, no jack for a power supply and an unpainted case or even a plastic one...and even no knobs.....then show them one with all the "extras"....ensure them it will sound the same and then announce the low price and the high price...they can decide what they want to spend. My family business use to be a custom framing art shop so I've dealt with every type of customer you can imagine for custom work. When you lay it out that way for people they get a better understanding of why something is cheaper or more expensive and it really opens they're eyes to the old "you get what you pay for" slogan.....the best way to get some more money for your work is a custom pain job. Its all about the look...show up your band name on your gear with a pro look to it that catches way more eyes at a gig then having a different fuzz then the opening act.

+1 My friend/old drummers works at the local music store. Since I'm building him something I took in an enclosure that I did for myself..he showed it to his coworkers and half of them want me to build them something....considering that what they saw wasn't even a functioning pedal and they would receive a staff discount at the shop I'd say yeah looks really are everything! but maybe they have a little faith in me since I've known most of them for ten years and they know I'm not about to split the scene any time soon.

Looks are everything with some people. I sold my 1590a Capt Kirk Phase 90 for $120 without the guy ever testing it. He was blinded by the looks. And I wasn't going to stop him

[joelindsey]

I'll be building a fuzz for somebody this week. It's an original circuit, but it's simple so the boards are pretty quick to populate. I don't usually do this sort of thing, but it's a fun circuit so I figured if there was enough interest (say, more than six), I would make a short run of them with paint and labeling and all and sell them for about $120. Since only this person was interested, I said I'll make just this one, skip the painting and labeling (something I'm not good at, so it takes a while), and lower the price to $80. If it's a good day it should only take me about 4 hours to make. The parts cost around $15 give or take, leaving me $65, so I make about $16.25 an hour... at least that's what my calculator watch tells me. Maybe $80 for a few transistors in a bare metal box is too much considering that I don't have cleanest wiring or prettiest enclosures, but my time is limited so this kind of thing has to be worth it to me.

[Jdansti]

... I'm going to post some of my builds in the for sale section. I have to pay the dental surgeon 

Too bad you're not in the Houston area. I would have been glad to do your dental work. I really enjoy DIY stuff.

Seriously, I hope you got your chops are OK.
--------------------------------
As for charging and what to charge, I haven't seen one post that I disagree with.

My dad is an electrical engineer and could (still can) fix just about anything. When I was a kid, he thought about doing repair work as a business on the side, but Mom nixed that idea. She said that he would have lost money due to not charging enough. Knowing him, I agree.

You have to be able to cover the cost of materials and pay yourself a fair wage. If you're not comfortable doing that, then it sort of becomes a charity. Having said that, I think that this would be a great way for your son to earn some cash for school, learn a bit about the business world, and learn a hobby from Pops that he may decide to continue after school. It's also a great way to spend time together. Just make sure that the business doesn't distract him from his studies.

[Perrow]

the best way to get some more money for your work is a custom pain job.

That's another business altogether

[stallik]

Too bad you're not in the Houston area. I would have been glad to do your dental work. I really enjoy DIY stuff.

My sympathies lie with your toothache but this comment had me in stitches

[deadastronaut]

the best way to get some more money for your work is a custom pain job.

That's another business altogether

^  and can be arranged for free ...


some people do take the pee with this ''boutique''(a much despised word btw, reminds me of women shopping )  lark though, i recently saw a  simple overdrive , £ 2.00 worth of bits max (when looking at the freely available schematic)

going for almost $400.00.  ...thats just wrong imo, i'd feel really guilty about that..

do some people think they are getting something ''special'' if its really expensive?...i actually think some do...weird init?

people do ''buy with their eye'' too, and love a pedal without even hearing it. like us with the pictures thread too i guess..

right i'm off to make a load of lpb-1's with a picture of scarlett on em, and sell em for £500.00 each..

[Mark Hammer]

On the one hand, I'd like to think that my time is worth at least minimum wage.  On the other hand, the sort of commercial products you can pick up 2nd hand, in terrific shape, for a pittance, lead me to think that the purchaser should not be effectively overcharged for the fact that I don't have production methods nearly as efficient as big manufacturers.

Sure it may have taken me 6 hours to build something on perf, but it's built on perf for crying out loud.  I can't in all good conscience demand more money for a stupid fuzz that I had to make by hand (because I couldn't make it any other way) than a pedal of equal dependability and better construction quality made by a commercial company, just because I had to make it by hand.  

I have to disagree with you, Mark. Don't devalue your time simply because you don't have the production capabilities of a large manufacturer. The small, sometimes, one man shop is a selling point for custom, hand made, "boutique" pedals. You are taking the time to build a bit more carefully than a factory. I'm sure you understand that the large manufacturers have a large production capability the keep costs down since they build in large volume.

You make building by hand sound like a bad thing. So what if a circuit is built on perf? So were some of the earliest pedals from Electro Harmonix, if I recall. A few "boutique" pedals have also been done on perf. Why didn't you use a PCB? Because it's neither cost effective to make one nor have one (or more) made for you.

Remember, if someone asked you to build a pedal, they asked you, not one of the commercial companies.

I appreciate your support and encouragement.  But I don't think there is anything particularly special about MY builds.  There are things I do, like using shrink tubing on pot, switch, and jack lugs, but quite honestly, that is simply to compensate for the fact that they aren't soldered directly to a PCB...where they would not require such protection.  It's not a "better" build.  On the other hand, if I take a standard, non-original effect, and add some customized touches, like extra functions, or more range, or matching certain or otherwise hand-selecting components, or do a special paint/graphics job, then yeah, I can see where that adds value above the sort of fare available on Craigslist/kijiji or in a 2nd hand store.  If it is a wholly original design, that you could not buy anywhere 2nd hand (and that requires a certain amount of knowledge and perspective about what's out there), then charge what you'd see in a boutique shop.  But I'm not going to take a GGG, Tonepad, or Madbean layout of something I made, and was now informed but not thrilled about (i.e., been there done that bought the t-shirt), and turn around and sell it like I'm Pete Cornish or something.

Meh.  I could probably quit my job and make a fortune as a management consultant if I knew how to recognize a billable hour (and wear a suit).  Bt ultimately, it's just me or someone else babbling on about crap, so I don't think it worth very much.  And the same goes for pedals AFAIC; it's just a box that makes silly noises, and no one's life depends on it.  If I didn't already have a job, I might think of a rationale to charge more, but I don't consider my leisure time as being "on the clock".  I do want to recover my costs so I can buy more parts and build more, but I'm not really seeking more than that.  That's just me.  I certainly don't hold it against others if they adopt a different attitude.

[Bill Mountain]

I remember Paul C saying that when he priced the Timmy he just went "$parts costs x 3"  That was enough to make another one and pocket some money for his effort.  This always seemed like a good way to do it for a small builder.  The bigger you are the more you have to worry about specifics cost, time, etc.

I think if I built a large batch of pedals I would figure out the costs plus how much I wanted to make for the time I put in and then divide by the number of pedals.

Example:

Parts for 10 pedals = $300.00
2 weekends of buidling = $500.00

Then $80 for each pedal.  But then again I've never built a pedal for sale so all that could change if it actually happens some day.

[moosapotamus]

I go along with 3 times the cost of parts. It's simple, self-sustaining and you don't have to draw any lines between strangers, friends and everyone in between.

But I will break ranks on one point and suggest that your time spent is worth absolutely nothing to whoever buys one of your pedals. Therefore, it should not factor into whatever you decide to charge. OTOH, if you were a massage therapist, instead of a pedal builder, then your time would be a factor. But people who buy pedals are paying for a sound, perhaps a "look", and some level of reliability and workmanship. That's it. Doesn't matter if it took you 4 hours or 4 weeks to finish the pedal. They are really only interested in the end result.

So, Bill - I think you're under selling yourself (just like the majority of the rest of us ). You should charge $90 each for those hypothetical pedals.

~ Charlie x 3