To share or not to share … ?

[drolo]

Ever since I started coming up with my own circuits (well more combination of existing ones, tweaks and mods ...) I started to think, why don't I try selling them? I don't mean to start a business and I am conscious that the market is oversaturated already as it is. My first question is always, am I bringing something new? Otherwise it's not worth it.

Considering the amount of precious information I have found on this forum, shared generously by DIY'ers as well as professionals, I feel I should owe it to the community to share my findings. I know I certainly just reinvented someone else's wheel and chances are nobody cares for what I do ...

BUT a part of me finds it hard to let go of these ideas ...

If I were a famous builder I would not mind someone else copying my stuff. I guess I would feel honored more than anything and copies add to the success, mojo and myth.

But I'm not ... and I would feel very bad to see one of my ideas being used by an evil money-making corporation whose spies are constantly lurking over these forums waiting to grab all good ideas that might arise from the crowd (my imagination ...)

I guess I will share it eventually, with some demos when I have some time, as it does not make sense to keep it for myself, (especially since it's not like I invented something worthy of a Nobel price for noisemaking ...) but I wanted to know how you folks think about the intellectual property of what you invent and what you think about sharing it.

I am sure most beginners in this hobby must have felt this way at some time or another ...

[B Tremblay]

Share only if you are prepared to happily accept someone making money with your work without acknowledgement.

[Kesh]

I share. On principle I think it's good to share as much as you possibly can.

If others make money from it, well done them.

[deafbutpicky]

I'm tinkering on an idea for nearly a year now. Most of the time went into research and this side
was my main source of information on this special topic (multiple band cmos overdrive).It's
definitely not a new idea, but there's nearly nothing similar out there. As soone as I'm satisfied
with it, I'll post it nevertheless. The way I see it, it's some sort of giving back the community
what makes it grow. Another aspect would be the additional input from others that could make
the circuit even better.

[drolo]

Share only if you are prepared to happily accept someone making money with your work without acknowledgement.

Oh well, i guess i will need to take on Yoga classes again ... :-)

[drolo]

I'm tinkering on an idea for nearly a year now. Most of the time went into research and this side
was my main source of information on this special topic (multiple band cmos overdrive).It's
definitely not a new idea, but there's nearly nothing similar out there. As soone as I'm satisfied
with it, I'll post it nevertheless. The way I see it, it's some sort of giving back the community
what makes it grow. Another aspect would be the additional input from others that could make
the circuit even better.

That's a very valid point you make there

[Gurner]

I share. On principle I think it's good to share as much as you possibly can.

If others make money from it, well done them.

Can you link me to your schems please?

[Bill Mountain]

I share when I have something that I haven't seen on the site before or when I need help with a design.  I like to build things using standard building blocks so 90% of what I design has been done before.

I would share if you feel compelled to.  Nothing I've posted has gotten more than a few replies so it's not like you'll be ripped off instantly.

If you are worried about protecting you ideas then build them first and establish your "business" and then share.  But don't worry there will always be people who can build it better and faster and maybe 1% of the guitar playing community actually give a damn about unique original designs.

Make a pretty box if you want sales.

Good luck!

[oldschoolanalog]

>Make a pretty box if you want sales.
HUGE +1!

[drolo]

>Make a pretty box if you want sales.
HUGE +1!

Blimey ... and silly me is trying to convince myself to not be seduced by futile aesthetics, leave boxes in bare aluminum, stand to my point of view and educate potential buyers (counting 0 to date) explaining that i don't want to unnecessarily use chemicals just to make box pretty and that it won't change the sound ...
:-) I have absolutely no chance to make it in this business (or any business...)

[Bill Mountain]

>Make a pretty box if you want sales.
HUGE +1!

Blimey ... and silly me is trying to convince myself to not be seduced by futile aesthetics, leave boxes in bare aluminum, stand to my point of view and educate potential buyers (counting 0 to date) explaining that i don't want to unnecessarily use chemicals just to make box pretty and that it won't change the sound ...
:-) I have absolutely no chance to make it in this business (or any business...)

I'm with you here.  I bounce ideas off of a guitarist friend who likes to collect boutique pedals and everytime I suggest a cool circuit twist he tells me that the only thing that matters is paint and top mounted jacks.  He's probably right.

The only pedal that can get away with a bare box is the Bluebeard Fuzz but he's been doing that for 15 years or so.

[R.G.]

You can assume that if anything you post has some merit, it will be used for whatever nefarious purposes can be imagined. You may be pleasantly suprised.

If you assume some great idea will be appreciated and you respected for creating it, you will be disappointed.

The internet encourages a lowest-common-denominator effect where you're practically certain to get connected to some of the bottom 10% of the pool, and also allows the bottom 10% to have a disproportionate effect and visibility. I actually wonder if the internet's everyone-talks-to-everyone has accelerated the balkanization of societies in real life.

[drolo]

The internet encourages a lowest-common-denominator effect where you're practically certain to get connected to some of the bottom 10% of the pool, and also allows the bottom 10% to have a disproportionate effect and visibility. I actually wonder if the internet's everyone-talks-to-everyone has accelerated the balkanization of societies in real life.

hmm I am not certain that i understand what you mean by that ...

Other than that i agree with what you have stated before.
I guess the best thing is to get your stuff out there and let it have its own life ...

[thelonious]

The internet encourages a lowest-common-denominator effect where you're practically certain to get connected to some of the bottom 10% of the pool, and also allows the bottom 10% to have a disproportionate effect and visibility. I actually wonder if the internet's everyone-talks-to-everyone has accelerated the balkanization of societies in real life.

hmm I am not certain that i understand what you mean by that ...

Before the internet, there was less opportunity for trolls, haters, and unethical lowlifes (lowlives?) to have an anonymous platform or voice. Because they were required to do their trolling by being physically present, they eventually would be ostracized or called to account for their actions in ways that would make their lowlifing (lowliving?) more difficult and reduce their "effect and visibility".

Balkanization is fragmenting into warring factions. We have the internet to thank for the fact that we all know what a "flame war" or a "troll" is. Of course, the internet has also provided a voice and community for many voiceless people in a lot of good ways, too. And we also have it to thank for the fact that we can learn about electronics from this forum and the schematics that you (hopefully) choose to share.

[slacker]

From my own experience of sharing designs, there are certainly people who will attempt to profit from your work without your permission, there are also a good number of people who do the right thing and ask permission to attempt to profit from it. There may even be the opportunity to make a little money if you wanted to.

[tca]

I like to share my circuits. I usually release them under a Creative Commons license: http://creativecommons.org/licenses/   Just choose a version that suits your mind/needs. The one I use  is the same as arduino.

I have received some PM from some forum members asking if they can sell my circuits and make some money. My response is always the same, as long as you comply to the license.

I believe in open-source software and as such the same applies to open-source hardware, it shares the same principles and approach of free and open-source software. I think that people should be able to study hardware to understand how it works, make changes to it, and share those changes.

Don't worry about the rest.

Be good!

P.S.
These licenses have legal value in the US and in Europe (CE), and so if you find something really, really, really great, and someone tries to use your circuit and then forbid you to build it, you can use these license to protect your intellectual work. And posting your circuits in a public forum is a GOOD thing.

The license I use is this: http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/2.5/

You are free:

   to Share — to copy, distribute and transmit the work
   to Remix — to adapt the work
   to make commercial use of the work

Under the following conditions:

Attribution — You must attribute the work in the manner specified by the author or licensor (but not in any way that suggests that they endorse you or your use of the work).

Share Alike — If you alter, transform, or build upon this work, you may distribute the resulting work only under the same or similar license to this one.
 
See the link for more info.

[R.G.]

I like to share my circuits. I usually release them under a Creative Commons license...
These licenses have legal value in the US and in Europe (CE), and so if you find something really, really, really great, and someone tries to use your circuit and then forbid you to build it, you can use these license to protect your intellectual work.

I am not a lawyer. However, I've talked to several of them. Best I undertstand it, circuits in the sense of the underlying connection of parts may not be protected by copyright. They may only be protected by patent. The image you draw of your circuit may be protected by copyright, and licenses like the CCL.

This issue comes up over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and overand over and overand over and over and over and overand over and overand over and overand over and overand over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over on pedal forums.

In all cases, any time you say the words "license" "permission" "permit" and other similar terms with legal meaning, you should always consult a real, no-fooling legal attorney for what you're getting into. Internet lawyers are not recognized in many courts.

[tca]

You are right R.G., but people from free-software are always dealing  with this stuff! CC licenses have legal value and, at least in the CE, these licenses are embedded in local countries legislations.

Something to read:
- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open-source_hardware
- http://www.ibm.com/developerworks/opensource/library/os-openhardware/

Cheers.

P.S.
The Arduino hardware reference designs are distributed under a Creative Commons Attribution Share-Alike 2.5 license.

[armdnrdy]

This issue comes up over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and overand over and overand over and over and over and overand over and overand over and overand over and overand over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over on pedal forums.

There are times when R.G.s explanation of things can get a bit too technical for some. Let me try to simplify this by putting it in terms more suitable for a novice.

What I gather from his post is that R.G. truly believes:

This issue comes up over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and overand over and overand over and over and over and overand over and overand over and overand over and overand over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over on pedal forums.  

[Gus]

What is/was new and different.  Whammy petals/digital effects?

Most fuzz/distortion/OD guitar effect stuff is gain stages(with distortion) and EQ at a basic level.  The circuit fragments in a lot of effects are common in textbook/app notes stuff IMO.

If the circuit is really something new and/or good sounding just sell it.

People who don't work in electronics ,go to school for electronics, read older books about electronics, etc seem to miss most distortions etc ideas are old and have been done before.

For multiband distortion look up the Quadrafuzz.