Any suggestions on getting everything to fit in an enclosure?

[nobodysweasel]

I'm sure this has been discussed over and over, but the search feature is failing me.  I'm relatively new to this.  I've built 3 pedals and breadboarded probably 10 others.  By far the most frustrating thing for me is getting everything to fit in the enclosures.  I have a hard time visualizing in 3 dimensions whether or not the input jacks and pots will hit each other, if my PCB is too close to the LED, if my 9V jack is going to interfere with the pot placement.  To me, it's the least fun part about it.  I usually end up using a 1590BB where others use a 1590B, and even then things are a bit snug.  Also, not really knowing where parts are going to end up makes enclosure design more iffy.

Does anyone have any advice on this?  Since this has probably already been discussed, do any of you have links saved to any resources for this?  As always, thanks in advance for any help.  This forum has been an invaluable resource.

[reverberation66]

my suggestion would be to use larger enclosures, problem solved.  otherwise just make sure to measure everything very carefully. 

[Keeb]

If you use inkscape you can import parts from this vector pack in Rob's layout gallery (http://www.aronnelson.com/gallery/main.php/v/chickpea/pedal_vectorpack.pdf.html). Just remember to group the parts in inkscape otherwise you'll be moving the individual pieces of the part.
Inkscape is free and if you have never used it before I'd suggest learning how to manipulate the grid function, makes aligning a breeze.

Create a square with the same dimensions as the enclosure you want to use and then do the same for your PCB. Use these along with the parts from the vector pack to place everything.
You'll be working in 2D though. I'm sure you could make squares for the sides and get a 3D feel to it, but I don't. (I don't push the limits with 1590a enclosures either). Pots usually fits under the board and there's always some wiggle room if you're using 1590Bs or 1590BBs.

This is also quite helpful for creating decals or whatever.

[LucifersTrip]

I'm not sure why you have to visualize stuff if you have a ruler....

Though, using known layouts may be helpful:
https://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=1590bb+layout&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_cp.r_qf.&bvm=bv.1355325884,d.dmQ&bpcl=39967673&biw=1024&bih=617&um=1&ie=UTF-8&tbm=isch&source=og&sa=N&tab=wi&authuser=0&ei=zRPPUPPYMJS60AHGmoGgDA

...and there is no shame in using larger enclosures

the Radio Shack ones are a great, cheap enclosure to experiment with...and they have a lot of headroom
http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2062217

[Processaurus]

I recommend working backwards and getting the layout of the box together before laying out the board.  This helps to shape the board right, and have the wires for the controls come out in a logical location.  Often time, doing that makes you realize a board can be bigger than the bare minimum, which makes layout and debugging easier.

Treat yourself and get a pair of digital calipers if you don't already.  Indispensable for this kind of work.  I'm guessing someone having difficulties with layout isn't versed in a modeling program, that's ok, but do you know any graphics software?  I'm imagining one could make scale drawings of things like pots, switches, and jacks from the top down, and move them around within a border representing the top face of the enclosure, to find a good layout.

Even if you didn't use the computer, you could photocopy a bunch of drawings of the parts from the top down, cut them out, and move them around and tape them down when satisfied, and that's your drilling template.

Also, you can try the 9mm Alpha pots from small bear, if you shop there.  They are very forgiving for layouts.

[Arcane Analog]

I dislike 1590A enclosures. With 125Bs you have the option to place the jacks over the pots.

+1 on using a simple ruler to layout your boxes. I find them much easier and more flexible than calipers.

[Mark Hammer]

There are a bunch of little things that one can do to make the space available in a box, and on the control surface, more usable.

1) If you are perfing, or designing your own layout, do consider things like SIP chips, vertical mounting of resistors, and selecting caps for size, so that the board space is reduced.

2) I recommend #24 wire rather than heavier gauges.  It's strong enough, turns corners nicely, and doesn't take up a lot of room.

3) Use the PCB-mount stompswitches, rather than those whose lugs stick out at the side.

4) Be prudent in your choice of jacks, and don't be afraid to "tuck in" their solder lugs a little with some needle-nose pliers.

5) When selecting 2.1mm power jacks for external power, there seem to be two basic choices: innies and outies.  That is, those where the segment of the jack that goes inside the chassis is minimal and the threaded part sticks way out of the chassis, almost like a phone jack, and those where the intent is for the jack to have a low profile outside the chassis, placing the brunt of the jack on the inside, where the threaded portion and retaining nut are.  Outies are not the most cosmetically ideal, but they do free up some room inside, and often provide more flexibility in terms of where you can put them.

6) Slender control knobs.  Many pots are small enough to fit quite a few in a basic 1590B or BB box, but the limiting factor is the space between them needed for your fingers.  Opting for more narrow-profile knobs allos you to fit things more closely together, and still have room for your fingers.

7) Why do you need THAT there?  We're used to having certain things in certain more orless standard locations, but it's your pedal and you call the shots.  In/out jacks can go along the rear skirt and stompswitches don't all have to be dead center.  If re-arranging things a little allows it all to fit, without being inconvenient, from a user perspective, then do it.

[Jdansti]

Everything above.

Plan ahead. All too often I've built something and then try to figure out which enclosure it's going to fit. Also, leave out the battery unless it's been requested by a customer or it's absolutely necessary for how you're going to use the pedal.

Also ask Jon Midwayfair. He crams all kinds of stuff into a 1590A!

[haveyouseenhim]

Get a set of calipers. You will not regret it.

[Arcane Analog]

After you have your 59.81 mm how do you go about marking the centre of your enclosure? Do you leave the calipers on the enclosure and use it to find the centre?

[kodiakklub]

engineer's square to find center, and then eyeball it before you punch.

[haveyouseenhim]

After you have your 59.81 mm how do you go about marking the centre of your enclosure? Do you leave the calipers on the enclosure and use it to find the centre?

calculator    59.81mm divided by 2 = 29.905mm

plus there's all kinds of tricks to using calipers

[Arcane Analog]

After you have your 59.81 mm how do you go about marking the centre of your enclosure? Do you leave the calipers on the enclosure and use it to find the centre?

calculator    59.81mm divided by 2 = 29.905mm

plus there's all kinds of tricks to using calipers

HaHa. Thanks for the math lesson!  

What I was asking is if you use the calipers to actually mark out the enclosure after you have used it to determine how wide the box is or do you then get out a ruler (or something else) to make your markings. I just fail to see that value of calipers when a simple ruler will not only measure your box but it will also let you mark it out as you measure. The calipers you pictured do not look very handy to me. After you "figure out" the width of a box (which are standard measurements or easily determined with a plain old ruler) you still need something else to mark iut the box. seems like an superfluous step.

[Arcane Analog]

engineer's square to find center, and then eyeball it before you punch.

Exactly! I just do not see the value of digital calipers when simple tools do the job and are faster. You can measure and mark at the same time with a square.

[haveyouseenhim]

Oh   the calipers have sharp tips that I use to do a very light scratch in the metal.  I'll make a video on how I do my boxes if anyone wants to see

[Arcane Analog]

Oh   the calipers have sharp tips that I use to do a very light scratch in the metal.  I'll make a video on how I do my boxes if anyone wants to see

Sweet! I am always up for learning new techniques.

[nobodysweasel]

Thanks for the great responses.  This is all really helpful.

[haveyouseenhim]

[Arcane Analog]

Neat! Not really practical for my builds though.

With a ruler I do not have to scratch the enclosure (either on purpose or by mistake) which could be a little problematic if you are measuring out and drilling a finished box. Every pedal I build is finished before it is drilled and I do not want to risk scratching the finish.

I also mark all 3/4/5 pots at once after doing the math. For example, with three knobs I divide the width by 4 and mark them out in a row. Quick and easy!