can someone reccommend me a ....

[pinkjimiphoton]

relatively easy, low part ring modulator?

i've gotta be able to veroboard it. that's a must. and it's gotta be reasonably common parts.

an old friend asked me to make him one, and i said "sure, we can do that!!"

tho i don't think i know ANYTHING about 'em. i used to own a green ringer. i've played with multis that have them,
but for my personal style, they're basically useless so i know absolutley zilch about them.

guidance (particularly if high on low brow humor) is ALWAYS welcome.

i'd really like to hook my friend up. it's getting to the point where for some reason peeps around here
seem to like my pedals, so i get all kinds of impossible requests (hey, pink, can you make me an analog three voice harmonizer that will fit in a rat shack box for like, 100 bux?!?!?!?) and have sold a few now, including the vocalizer, the liberal komrade and a bunch of fuzzes and envelope filters and stuff....which is cool, cuz i just use it to stock my junk drawer (which overfloweth).

thanks "in advance" as always... pink out

[theehman]

Logan 5?

I've got a couple of stuffed PCBs I can let go of cheap.

[digi2t]

Logan 5?

I've got a couple of stuffed PCBs I can let go of cheap.

+1 on low parts. I built one, but I find it fussy on where you`re playing on the neck. You can tune it though, to work where you want it to work best. Build guide is here;
http://www.forrestwhitesides.com/files/up/docs/LOGAN5_Build_Guide.pdf

Cool little noise maker, I put it into the same box as my Digital Octave Fuzz. I made a vero, and a sound clip, thread is here; http://www.diystompboxes.com/smfforum/index.php?topic=89460.0

[pinkjimiphoton]

Logan 5?

I've got a couple of stuffed PCBs I can let go of cheap.

thanks ron,
but i really wanna build this for him.

[pinkjimiphoton]

Logan 5?

I've got a couple of stuffed PCBs I can let go of cheap.

+1 on low parts. I built one, but I find it fussy on where you`re playing on the neck. You can tune it though, to work where you want it to work best. Build guide is here;
http://www.forrestwhitesides.com/files/up/docs/LOGAN5_Build_Guide.pdf

Cool little noise maker, I put it into the same box as my Digital Octave Fuzz. I made a vero, and a sound clip, thread is here; http://www.diystompboxes.com/smfforum/index.php?topic=89460.0

cool, i love culturejam's stuff...always easy, and usually good sound.
thanks brother!!!
i will check the thread, too. hope all is good, sorry i missed your call recently.
by the time i got the phone it was too late unfortunately..and right now i can't do the international calling thing.



peace!

[Mark Hammer]

If you have ANY modulation pedal (tremolo, vibrato, phaser, chorus, flanger) you can identify the target cap in, and modify, that will take you 90% of the way there.  It is not a "true" ring modulator, but for anyone who is not a purist, you will be unable to tell the difference in many instances.  I have one of the old blue rackmount MXR Digital Delays, and one of features it comes with is the ability to pull out the Rate/Speed knob and multiply whatever you had it set to by 100x, yielding a maximum modulation rate of 1000hz.  Couldn't tell it apart from a ring-mod.

The objective here is to move the LFO range in the pedal from the subaudio up into the audio range.  So, if the LFO sweeps from, say, once every 10 seconds to 4 times a second, you would want to hike that up by perhaps a factor of at least 15-20 so that you can achieve an assortment of audio-frequency modulation rates.  A factor of 20x the existing rate would give you a maximum modulation rate of 80hz.  That will still produce an output that sounds ...sort of...on-pitch, but has some of that elastic band boingyness to it.  The truly outrageous RM tones that don't really sound on-pitch at all are those that use much higher modulation rates.  Keep in mind that you get "sideband products" of the sum and difference.  Taking 80hz off a 500hz note, or adding 80hz to it, is "off-pitch", but nearly as much taking off or adding 200hz.

So, let's say we have a standard 2-opamp LFO.  There will be a cap in the feedback loop of one of the op-amps.  If it is 100nf, then hiking up the range would involve dropping that cap value down by at least a factor of 20; in this case, a .0047uf replacement would be suitable, although probably a 2200pf would be optimal.

In a phaser like the P90, the LFO has a different architecture, but the rate is still governed by a single cap in the feedback loop of an op-amp.  Drop the value of that cap to move into the audio range, and there's your ring-mod substitute.

It's a funy thing.  Even though all the various effects types Tremolo, phaser, vibrato, chorus, flanger) are doing fundamentally different things (and we could even include the Boss Dynamic Filter of the Runoffgroove Phozer in with the others), once you crank the modulation rate up into the audio range, what the ear hears and attends to most is the sideband products.

Note that returning the pedal to its original range is simply a matter of using a toggle to patch in an additional cap in parallel with the smaller-value one to achieve the original cap value.  The only caveat I will add is that you'll want to roll off the highs of any signal you feed into a ringmod.  Sum and difference of the fundamental sounds fun; sum and difference of all those harmonics sound awful.  Keep in mind that ringmods were original employed by synth folks using pure sine waves.

[midwayfair]

If you have ANY modulation pedal (tremolo, vibrato, phaser, chorus, flanger) you can identify the target cap in, and modify, that will take you 90% of the way there.  It is not a "true" ring modulator, but for anyone who is not a purist, you will be unable to tell the difference in many instances.  I have one of the old blue rackmount MXR Digital Delays, and one of features it comes with is the ability to pull out the Rate/Speed knob and multiply whatever you had it set to by 100x, yielding a maximum modulation rate of 1000hz.  Couldn't tell it apart from a ring-mod.

The objective here is to move the LFO range in the pedal from the subaudio up into the audio range.  So, if the LFO sweeps from, say, once every 10 seconds to 4 times a second, you would want to hike that up by perhaps a factor of at least 15-20 so that you can achieve an assortment of audio-frequency modulation rates.  A factor of 20x the existing rate would give you a maximum modulation rate of 80hz.  That will still produce an output that sounds ...sort of...on-pitch, but has some of that elastic band boingyness to it.  The truly outrageous RM tones that don't really sound on-pitch at all are those that use much higher modulation rates.  Keep in mind that you get "sideband products" of the sum and difference.  Taking 80hz off a 500hz note, or adding 80hz to it, is "off-pitch", but nearly as much taking off or adding 200hz.

So, let's say we have a standard 2-opamp LFO.  There will be a cap in the feedback loop of one of the op-amps.  If it is 100nf, then hiking up the range would involve dropping that cap value down by at least a factor of 20; in this case, a .0047uf replacement would be suitable, although probably a 2200pf would be optimal.

In a phaser like the P90, the LFO has a different architecture, but the rate is still governed by a single cap in the feedback loop of an op-amp.  Drop the value of that cap to move into the audio range, and there's your ring-mod substitute.

It's a funy thing.  Even though all the various effects types Tremolo, phaser, vibrato, chorus, flanger) are doing fundamentally different things (and we could even include the Boss Dynamic Filter of the Runoffgroove Phozer in with the others), once you crank the modulation rate up into the audio range, what the ear hears and attends to most is the sideband products.

Note that returning the pedal to its original range is simply a matter of using a toggle to patch in an additional cap in parallel with the smaller-value one to achieve the original cap value.  The only caveat I will add is that you'll want to roll off the highs of any signal you feed into a ringmod.  Sum and difference of the fundamental sounds fun; sum and difference of all those harmonics sound awful.  Keep in mind that ringmods were original employed by synth folks using pure sine waves.

HOLY CRAP. This is awesome. I'll be trying it very soon, I have an extra Shoot the Moon board I can build it on ....

[Mark Hammer]

You will note that the John Hollis Frobnicator uses this identical strategy to make a 3080-based tremolo double as a ring-modulator.  Craig Anderton did the exact same thing 30 years ago in a construction project in Contemporary Keyboard magazine.

So, no great insight on my part.  Indeed, we've seen a number of projects here over the years where someone included a mod to switch between lower and higher modulation ranges.

[pinkjimiphoton]

wow, mark, thanks, this makes total sense.

i always thought of ring mods as more of a distortion than a modulation. cool!!

he does want something hand built, so i think dino's idea will be perfect for him... the band he's in will really
dig the crazier stuff way more than anything melodic. but it gives me some ideas for molesting some other things i've either built or plan to!!

[Mark Hammer]

One additional recommendation I will make is to somehow include a momentary switch, if possible.  Strong sideband products, and "de-pitchification" are the sort of thing that many guitar players would only use in tiny amounts, rather than as a set-and-forget effect like a compressor, chorus or overdrive.  Being able to introduce it in a riff-wise fashion (think "Cheap Sunglasses") can be a real plus for some players.  Just a thought.

[pinkjimiphoton]

thanks mark,
with this band, i don't think that will matter too much...they make up their own scales, and stuff.

the more wack, the better.

ler's theme from south park is kinda what they sound like with no effects at all. 

[timd]

It terms of easy, this is the top and was one of my first builds:

http://little-scale.blogspot.com/2007/08/blog-post.html

Here's what it sounds like - pardon my bad camera at the time I shot this...

[pinkjimiphoton]

sick! not for me, but this guys would probably love it! thanks tim! 

[petey twofinger]

there is also something floating around that is called " MayheM! "

[timd]

sick! not for me, but this guys would probably love it! thanks tim! 

Glad I could help out! I would breadboard and mess with the cap size too for desired taste. There is a little oscillator whine that always seems to be present when this thing is on, but I guess that's the tradeoff for a super low parts count non-dirt effect.