Talkbox Switch

[ollelolle]

Hi all!

I am building a talkbox with a bypass switch.
The schematics i've been following is this: http://www.stewmac.com/tradesecrets/ts0134_bypasspedal.hzml
But since the microphone catching the sound coming from the tube will need phantom-feeding i guess there will be a problem?
Can i run phantom-feeding from a sound mixer with phantom, through the 3PDT, and then to the mic?

[Mike Burgundy]

A talkbox usually uses your vocal mic - so it goes straight into the PA board. That should take care of phantom needs. Usually when switching to a talkbox the feed to your regular amp gets muted, when switching back the talkbox gets muted - I think you're looking for an A/B switch.
Such as:

hih

[ollelolle]

I won't be using it for vocals, so i am looking to be able to run the guitar and the talkbox on only one channel.
Can i use the 3PDT switch for your idea too? If yes, how is the schematics for soldering the switch?

[ollelolle]

It isn't actually so important that it is one-channel...but how would i wire the switch?

[Mike Burgundy]

Are you talking about a talkbox used as a stompbox *in* your signal chain - so the talkbox sound still comes out of your amp/speakers? That's a whole different beast from a regular Heil-type talkbox. The normal type uses a power amplifier into a relatively high powered compression driver to ram sound through basically a garden hose. The sound out of that hose acts like vocal cords when you stick the hose in your mouth. The sound can be modulated by changing the way your mouth resonates, just like when you make vowel sounds with your voice. This is normally then picked up by a vocal mic and sent to the PA.
There is one commercially available (may actually be discontinued) self-contained unit AFAIK, Danelectro I think. Works differently though. If I remember correctly, this did not measure up to a full-blown talkbox. If you want the compression driver setup, yet still use it as a stompbox, more electronics are involved ( INPUT >pre- and poweramp, preferably with clipping, HP filter and controls, into compression driver, microphone mounted onto mouth-tube (or on separate stand), mic preamp, level matching to guitar level, perhaps some tonal control >OUTPUT ). This can then be bypassed with a DPDT or 3PDT just like you would any other effect.
If you set up as in the general guitar gadgets drawing, search the forum for A/B switch. Simplest form is a DPDT, such as the one here: http://www.beavisaudio.com/projects/Looper-Switcher/index.htm. Can be as complicated as the hum-free A/B/Y splitter at GEO (link in upper left hand corner of your screen)

[Mike Burgundy]

That was a very roundabout way of saying "Im a little unsure as to what you're doing, exactly".  Some more detail on what you're attempting could help, starting with schematics if possible.

[slacker]

I'm a bit confused as well, I think possibly he wants to run the talkbox mic through his guitar amp rather than the PA. In which case use a mic that doesn't need phantom power, that solves that problem.
Edit: missed that's what Mike just covered, should learn to read properly.

[ollelolle]

How do i add a picture?

[pinkjimiphoton]

you can't run a talkbox thru the same amp you play thru, all you'll get is a feedback loop. the dano free speech thing tryed to do it,
and was a total unuseable piece of shit.

you can use a rocktron banshee, but they don't have the necessary balls really. people talk all the time about running low wattage things into talkboxes and rattling teeth,
which is bullshit.

i've used talkboxes live for 30 years.

you need enough power to make the sound coming up the tube, and ultimately out of your mouth to be at least as loud as your voice..30 -50 watts minimum for best effect.

as for wiring the switch,
it's easy.

get a single pole double throw stompswitch.

put it in a box with three jacks.

decide which jacks will be what, and label accordingly.

the wiring is totally simple.

take the hot (from the output of the amp) "tip" of the box's input, and wre that to the common pole of the switch.

wire one side of the switch to the tip of the jack for the driver, wire the other side of the switch to the tip of the jack that sends the signal back to your amp.
connect the three grounds together.

done.

all it really is is an a/b pedal. if you REALLY need a drawing, post back and i'll make you one.

but you need the following

guitar, cable, amp.

take output of amp to input of talkbox/ (a/b box). connect one output of a/b box to driver. connect other side to amp speaker cabinet.

when the talkbox is engaged, the sound travels up the tube (rather than coming out the speakers) and goes in your face, which you contort around and mouth words in a silly over pronounced way into a
microphone feeding a PA system.

there is no way to do it all with one amp above bedroom levels, and even that is problematic.

good luck!!

[ollelolle]

Schematics would be nice...but how do i upload a picture?

[pinkjimiphoton]

actually, mike's drawing is fine, if you have two amps.
most of us just switch between our stage speaker array and the box tho.

yep...switch the speaker (as in a heil) rather than go thru the hassle of two amps.

[pinkjimiphoton]

ollie, that pic can't be displayed, you need to up it to photobucket or something

http://file:///C:/Users/Ole-Martin/Downloads/Schematic.png

you're pointing at a file on your own hard drive.

[ollelolle]

[pinkjimiphoton]

that won't work.
there is no physical connection between the talk box and the mixer, and no direct box involved. the drawing will not work.
i just whipped ya up a diagram for how to wire the switch for a talkbox, will up it for you in a second.

then i'll draw you a diagram of how it works. cuz this (no offense) ain't it.

in the diagram below, "in" goes to the speaker out put of your amp.

tb is to talkbox driver or input

sc is speaker cabinet/speaker



what you have in your pic is ok to the talkbox only if the talkbox is self powered, like a rocktron banshee... (which really needs at least 5 times the power it has). from that point on, it's utterly impossible.
i'll be back with a "schematic" so you can make sense of it.

[ollelolle]

The talkbox is self-powered...I used an old amplifier and took it apart, so it has its own power supply...
Will my drawing work then?

[pinkjimiphoton]

please note, the tube accoustically couples the amp output to the pa, there is no physical coupling involved.

here's the right way to do it... the post mike gave with the two amps is also correct, tho more difficult as it requires a dedicated amp to drive the talkbox.

[ollelolle]

Ok...looks good.
What is the soldering for a 9-pin 3PDT switch on this?
Thanx for all help

[pinkjimiphoton]

The talkbox is self-powered...I used an old amplifier and took it apart, so it has its own power supply...
Will my drawing work then?

no, it still will not work as you have it drawn.

if self-powered, it is exaclty the same as the drawing mike burgundy posted, other than having the second amp self contained in the talk box.
your drawing has a direct box...which isn't a load for the amplifier as it were...you would in the case of how you have it drawn choose between the driver in the box accoustically (not physically) being coupled to the mic, or driving the direct box into the pa, which would not sound very good but would work. to a point.

the easiest/best way would be to set it up (the way you're trying to) with an a/b switch that either sends the signal post effects to the talkbox amp/driver combo, or the amp/pa whatever. the mic would still work going to the pa ONLY WHILE THE TALKBOX ITSELF IS ACTIVE, and the signal from your effects would in bypass go to the direct box. again, that will work, but not optimally.

i'll draw you an example based on what you're trying to do. brb.

[pinkjimiphoton]

Ok...looks good.
What is the soldering for a 9-pin 3PDT switch on this?
Thanx for all help

a 3pdt is overkill, but it's exactly the same. input/common goes to the middle,  talkbox on one side, speaker on the other. with a dpdt, if you want, you could even add led's if you wanted to, but then you'd need to add power to the box...probably not worth it, there's no mistaking when the talkbox is on, your amp won't work. 

[ollelolle]

Sorry...this would be a more exact schematic