"new" old fuzz...the Suzy-Q Kustom Harmonic Clipper

[pinkjimiphoton]

so... we were talking about old Kustom amps...

i wondered what the "harmonic clipper" circuit would sound like, digi2t was kind enough to isolate the fuzz section of the "special effects board" schematic.

i always LOVED kustoms, so i had to build one. this isn't exact to the original schematic, and the circuit was  adapted to run at 9v instead of 12.. it was also designed to have a preamp pushing it. dino built one on his breadboard, and wasn't impressed.

i, of course, had to try it on vero... i made it a little different from dino's schem, for one thing, i started at the 100k pot at the input to the circuit.
and instead of using BPT's, i opted for mosfets... vn2222's, which i REALLY like quite a bit.
since i'm a hack, i don't worry about using stuff where i shouldn't... i figure either it will work, or it won't. so i just plugged them mother@#$%ers in.

fired it up...and i LIKED it. it really sounded like the old john fogarty sound once i dialed up some tremolo and reverb on my amp.

i took it out live, but it was TOO brite... so i added a couple small snubbers, which took care of the earwigs without @#$%ing up the tone and vibe too bad, and now it's a cool little standalone fuzz, in some ways it reminds me of tim escobedo's harmonic jerkulator.

so here's the vero, as it were... i call it the "suzy-q"...



here's the schem i worked from, tho i had to mod a few values... was setup as  too   much   of a treble booster as per the original, so i put bigger caps in, which helped:



here's the original schem, fwiw...



it's a cool little fuzz... stupid pedal trick coming soon! it really likes it when you roll your tone knob way down, and then sweep up to the "sweet spot"... it cleans up fairly well from the guitar, too.  so.... if'n you're bored sometime...

[rutabaga bob]

Aaaw, man...another one to build!  Too bad my soldering iron shot craps...

[pinkjimiphoton]

larry!!! good to hear from ya...

i got your snail mail... do they have to be green superbrights?
all i have is blue, maybe a couple clears. i don't have any green led's right now at all...

gotta hit tayda one of these days...

let me know bud!!

[rutabaga bob]

Yeah, Jimi...up and running, at least temporarily.  The super bright greens are for Rob Henry's version of the Phuncgnosis...they are what he specs - no big deal, just thought you might have some.  I will probably list a couple of amp chassis's for sale on here real soon, to finance a new soldering iron.  So, as always: when's the SPT coming for this one?  I always dig 'em.

[digi2t]

OK, I had time tonight to test with FET's. Stuck some BS170's in here, and MAN!!, it's got some bite now. I readjusted the trimmers to more common values, and this is what I've got now on the breadboard;



With the 3.3K, 510K and 6.8K resistors, you'll get pretty close to the voltages.

I see what you mean about the treble bite, it's up there. 0.22 caps are definately in order here. But...

Sticking a treble booster in front of this sucker really makes it scream. It's amazing now, way better than the BJT's. Since it's JUUUUSSSSTTTT below unity, I think it would make a great rhythm pedal, and kicking a booster on in front of it would rocket you into Solo-land. Not to mention the amazing increase in fuzz. Really nice fuzz too, less synthy than with the BJT's. Honestly, I would try shacking it up with an Omega boost, with the boost in front. Like a Skyripper deal, Range before Fuzz. The Omega is a great boost, easy to build, and the tone control on it is great as well.

Gonna play with some cap values now.

I am impressed now. Lookin' real bootweaky.

[pinkjimiphoton]

Yeah, Jimi...up and running, at least temporarily.  The super bright greens are for Rob Henry's version of the Phuncgnosis...they are what he specs - no big deal, just thought you might have some.  I will probably list a couple of amp chassis's for sale on here real soon, to finance a new soldering iron.  So, as always: when's the SPT coming for this one?  I always dig 'em.

well, glad to see ya here, regardless.

i built the phungnosis, and just used plain old red ones, and made a retrofit to do DA's mod, it worked great... so if ya have any led's, i don't think it will really matter a whole lot.

i COULD be wrong.. frequently, in fact!!

spt will be as soon as i get a chance... was still messing with it earlier, it's almost where i want it.

hope you're back in the swing soon!!

will regular led's work? i can send ya some of those.

[pinkjimiphoton]

OK, I had time tonight to test with FET's. Stuck some BS170's in here, and MAN!!, it's got some bite now. I readjusted the trimmers to more common values, and this is what I've got now on the breadboard;



With the 3.3K, 510K and 6.8K resistors, you'll get pretty close to the voltages.

I see what you mean about the treble bite, it's up there. 0.22 caps are definately in order here. But...

Sticking a treble booster in front of this sucker really makes it scream. It's amazing now, way better than the BJT's. Since it's JUUUUSSSSTTTT below unity, I think it would make a great rhythm pedal, and kicking a booster on in front of it would rocket you into Solo-land. Not to mention the amazing increase in fuzz. Really nice fuzz too, less synthy than with the BJT's. Honestly, I would try shacking it up with an Omega boost, with the boost in front. Like a Skyripper deal, Range before Fuzz. The Omega is a great boost, easy to build, and the tone control on it is great as well.

Gonna play with some cap values now.

I am impressed now. Lookin' real bootweaky.

lost the pic, bro, can you repost?

the treble bite is EXTREME.... before settling on anything, make sure your amp is cranked up, cuz the hash can be excessive!! it's not bad turned down, but cranked it can get a mite unmanageable, right quick!!

i DO like a boost in front of it, but i like it even more kicking into another boost. thinking maybe a real simple little add on gain stage at the end to bring it up to unity.

or, just turn the amp up.

it's a lot nicer than i would have thought. i'm betting even bigger caps would work well, bet you could go up to 1u no problem...may get some of the "thump" back, make it seem to have a little more volume.

yah...i bet bs170's sound nice!! i love them in my SHO. funny how ya can just plug 'em in, innit?

look forward to seeing your pic... schematic?

[LucifersTrip]

just a note:

[Gus]

You built a mosfet booster gain stage to a follower.

a link to the vn2222 http://www.mouser.com/ds/2/308/VN2222LL-D-116470.pdf

Look at  a SHO

Look up biasing MOSFETS

Now what are the transistor voltages with the drain to gate resistor biasing I an assuming the gate to ground resistor is missing?
I don't think the output stage being a source follower mosfet makes a difference compared to a emitter follower. (yes it might sound a little different because of operation point but if both operating points are set the same I think the follower stage will sound the same)

schematic and voltages?

[Mark Hammer]

Built the Suzy-Q circuit, as shown, and tested it out last night (at least the sort of testing you can do at 10:50PM when you know everybody in the house has to be up at 4:30AM).  Such is my trust in you, Sir James, that I even committed some of my limited stash of tropical fish caps (bought in 1978, I believe) to it.  The diodes were unmarked generic germaniums, with a forward voltage of around 330mv each.

Works as promised.  More of a thick "harmonic slurry" than a fuzz or "distortion", and very much in the same camp as the Knight Fuzz, as was noted by others.

[pinkjimiphoton]

just a note:

thanks dave, that is indeed pretty freakin' close!!!


a couple minor changes, looks like either bud ross ripped off astrotone, or vice - versa.

nice sounding fuzzular, especially with the mosfets.

[digi2t]

Since Mark brought up the Knight Fuzz, here`s a nice write up Dave did on it; http://freestompboxes.org/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=20090. I think some of the mods he did on it could be applied to the Suzie-Q as well, especially where «harshness» is concerned.

I`m going to try it with an Omega Boost in front tonight. I have it in my Silicon Skyripper, so I`m going to stick it in front and see how it sounds. If it rocks my world (which I believe it will), I`ll whip up a schematic.

[pinkjimiphoton]

You built a mosfet booster gain stage to a follower.

a link to the vn2222 http://www.mouser.com/ds/2/308/VN2222LL-D-116470.pdf

Look at  a SHO

Look up biasing MOSFETS

Now what are the transistor voltages with the drain to gate resistor biasing I an assuming the gate to ground resistor is missing?
I don't think the output stage being a source follower mosfet makes a difference compared to a emitter follower. (yes it might sound a little different because of operation point but if both operating points are set the same I think the follower stage will sound the same)

schematic and voltages?

hi gus... this is the schematic dino worked up:



there's more info in this thread:

http://www.diystompboxes.com/smfforum/index.php?topic=100981.80

here's voltages, etc...

vn2222llrlrag

battery: 9.54v

after 100r resistor : 9.36v

q1
c  1.98
b  1.96
e  0.00

q2
c  9.36
b  3.54
e  1.89


differences between my build and dino's schem,

i added a 100k attack control to the input of the circuit, and went with .22u caps at input and output. you can see the actual values used on my vero.
also added a pair of tiny caps to s/g(?) of the mosfets, where it would be b/c if BPT'S. tamed the earwigs a little bit.

i will look up biasing mosfets when i get a chance, thanks as always for the tip!!

i don't know what i'm doing technically at all, remember, i'm a hack who knows very little so i don't mind breaking rules i don't know exist!!

to me, i thought it was kinda like a fuzzface, but with mosfets and some weird values.

can you suggest a way to get just a little more output? i seem to understand it when i see it, even if i don't have a clue what someone is describing cuz my swahilil 101 class just started.

[Mark Hammer]

Since Mark brought up the Knight Fuzz, here`s a nice write up Dave did on it; http://....org/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=20090. I think some of the mods he did on it could be applied to the Suzie-Q as well, especially where «harshness» is concerned.

I`m going to try it with an Omega Boost in front tonight. I have it in my Silicon Skyripper, so I`m going to stick it in front and see how it sounds. If it rocks my world (which I believe it will), I`ll whip up a schematic.

Personally, I'm not looking to tart it up at all.  It does what it does, appropriately, and fills a niche.  If a simple change can yield a wholly unique personality, I'll implement it, but right now I'm staring at so dang many harmonic-generating devices that it has to be REALLY unique and special to prompt me to mod.  Not a diss, you just reach a point where you have so many ways to get the same sound that you're not looking to find another one.

[pinkjimiphoton]

Built the Suzy-Q circuit, as shown, and tested it out last night (at least the sort of testing you can do at 10:50PM when you know everybody in the house has to be up at 4:30AM).  Such is my trust in you, Sir James, that I even committed some of my limited stash of tropical fish caps (bought in 1978, I believe) to it.  The diodes were unmarked generic germaniums, with a forward voltage of around 330mv each.

Works as promised.  More of a thick "harmonic slurry" than a fuzz or "distortion", and very much in the same camp as the Knight Fuzz, as was noted by others.

glad you approve mark. to me, it sounds kinda like the percolator, or more accurately the jerkulator.

i "get" the "harmonic slurry" sound. i've found the most useable tones so far with humbuckers with the tone rolled way back... then it becomes wicked responsive to pick attack, etc, but you can still hear the basic tone of whatever guitar or pickups you feed it.

now, all we need is to kick it up a notch..or better, 3. i like to be able to have more volume than i need, that usually helps take out the "blow" from the circuitry.

[pinkjimiphoton]

Since Mark brought up the Knight Fuzz, here`s a nice write up Dave did on it; http://....org/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=20090. I think some of the mods he did on it could be applied to the Suzie-Q as well, especially where «harshness» is concerned.

I`m going to try it with an Omega Boost in front tonight. I have it in my Silicon Skyripper, so I`m going to stick it in front and see how it sounds. If it rocks my world (which I believe it will), I`ll whip up a schematic.

it REALLY works GREAT in front of distortion/overdrive.. fuzz before it, even better! try it before some other dirt bro, i think you'll be pleasantly surprised!!
the JUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUst below unity thing doesn't matter so much then, and it will even bring a lame boss pedal to life.
seems to be fairly clean, other than the harmonics.


oh yeah, i forgot...

gus... drain to ground resistor? there wasn't one, should i try to add one?

[pinkjimiphoton]

Since Mark brought up the Knight Fuzz, here`s a nice write up Dave did on it; http://....org/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=20090. I think some of the mods he did on it could be applied to the Suzie-Q as well, especially where «harshness» is concerned.

I`m going to try it with an Omega Boost in front tonight. I have it in my Silicon Skyripper, so I`m going to stick it in front and see how it sounds. If it rocks my world (which I believe it will), I`ll whip up a schematic.

Personally, I'm not looking to tart it up at all.  It does what it does, appropriately, and fills a niche.  If a simple change can yield a wholly unique personality, I'll implement it, but right now I'm staring at so dang many harmonic-generating devices that it has to be REALLY unique and special to prompt me to mod.  Not a diss, you just reach a point where you have so many ways to get the same sound that you're not looking to find another one.

gotcha bro.

the two things it needs, in my opinion, are a metric skooch more volume, and at the least a switch to add snubbers to q1 and 2. at low volumes, it doesn't need it, it sounds great, but if you need to play it loud, the high end is just too much, even to my damaged deaf old ears.

but tonally? i love it. it's not quite a fuzz, not quite a drive.. somewhere in the middle.

i had a feeling you'd like it.

[pinkjimiphoton]

i just re-read dave's excellent post on the knight fuzz.. some of it makes a lot of sense. i tried to "thank" but got a "fatal error" notification,
so thanks lucifer!!

i love saying that...lol..

still, the biggest thing is, more volume. if there's no way to do it natively, wellp, i guess i'll have to consider adding another stage.

on the other thread, maybe we should add this to the trem/vibe project, and just call it "fogarty in a box".

gonna TRY to get to a SPT today... a lot of irons in the fire at the moment.

[digi2t]

Not a diss, you just reach a point where you have so many ways to get the same sound that you're not looking to find another one.

No diss taken Mark, whatsoever. I get your POV, 110%. It`s just my own personal taste on the issue. I just find it great with the FET`s... for ryhthm. I found that kicking a Rangemaster on in front of it gives me a nice boost, and fuzz gain, while retaining most of it`s character. Good solo boost. Again, this is my angle, I`m not trying to make any converts here. The reason why I want to try the Omega, is because the Rangemaster adds some hiss to an already treble-laden sound. I`ve found that the Omega is better in this respect. I tried the Skyripper fuzz in front of it, but that really messed up the character of it. Just a boost is fine.

All in all, the Reverand Jim`s design is fine, I`m cool with it, and it`s worth boxing. Doesn`t really sound like anything else I have in my arsenal. The Omega front end (maybe), with it`s own footswitch, will be my own «add to taste» thingy.

[pinkjimiphoton]

so... dino, mark, do you think i should try maybe tacking another gain stage on the end to get it louder?

i agree... it's a great pedal for what it is, it's gotta unique sound... it really does sound (to me) like a kustom.

i used to use a blown kustom (the power amp was blown) as the front end for my marshall jcm800 50 watter... no verb, no fx loop etc..

i'd take the "monitor" output right to the low gain input of the jcm, and man, i loved it.... trem/verb, and a nice treble boosted overdrive. put the echoplex in
between, and i was VERY happy... but back then i was playing "grungy" hard rock with a serious southern twist. this was great for that (i didn't play strats back then, was gibsons usually, so the treble boost was welcome)..

doing the asian icemen style, i can see where it needs a kick in the ass from another boost (the FAL makes a REALLY nice front end, BTW)...but for my more blues-oriented, it's nice just by itself.
i like not having to crank my guitar to get a nice tone.

be cool to see where this goes, i am really jazzed you guys approve!