Etchant solution in sweden

[rocinante]

Hi.

I was wondering if any of the swedes here could help me track down the best place to get some etchant solution (i am in malmö btw). I've been using ferric chloride but I think I've used it up or something and wanted to switch to the hydrochloric acid/peroxide mix. (As seen: http://m.instructables.com/id/Stop-using-Ferric-Chloride-etchant!--A-better-etc/)

I've tried a bunch of hardware stores but pool supplies don't seem to be as common here as back home in Australia ( at least in the middle of winter)...

Or if that isn't possible maybe someone could recommend me an online supplier. I'm hesitant to buy ferric again because of the enviro problems it creates.

Thanks in advance! 
Steve

[Mike Burgundy]

You could try to get SodiumPersulfate. Still nasty chemicals, laced with lots of copper when youre done, so still take it to a place that can actually deal with toxic waste.

[guitarmageddon]

Steve, I get 30% hydrogenperoxide from under the counter of my local pharmacy, at that streangth it's really dangerous, but 10% solution is pretty common as an atiseptic, the supermarket might even have it in the first aid section.
Hydrochloric acid (sometimes called mutraic acid- though who knows what it's called in Swedish  ) gets used by builders for cleaning bricks. I'm sure there'd be some sort of builders suppliers who have it. I get 4 litre bottles at the hardware store dirt cheep.
I'm in Australia too though, so what would I know about Sweden, they probably replaced bricks with kevlar years ago.
I would recomend trying the Instructables method, the acid can be rejuvinated and reused almost indefinately.

[JanssonGuitars]

hydrogenperoxide (Väteperoxid) is used as bleech in hair salons, check with them. Paint stores (Colorama etc) might have it.

Hydrochloric acid (Saltsyra) is also available at Colorama or similar store, or it was 3 years ago when i bought it to relic guitar hardware. They asked me some questions though about what i would use it for

Bauhaus or other big hardware stores might have them too.

[Skrogh]

Not sure about Sweden, but here in Denmark, just across the water, you can buy H2O2 in the drugstores (I think the strongest is sold as horse-feet-cleaner or something) and HCl can be bought in hardware stores.

Be aware though, do the etching in a well ventilated area and don't put your head in over the etching solution; some gasses will be released and can cause suffocation or water in your lungs if inhaled.

[rocinante]

hydrogenperoxide (Väteperoxid) is used as bleech in hair salons, check with them. Paint stores (Colorama etc) might have it.

Hydrochloric acid (Saltsyra) is also available at Colorama or similar store, or it was 3 years ago when i bought it to relic guitar hardware. They asked me some questions though about what i would use it for

Bauhaus or other big hardware stores might have them too.

Thanks for the info. (Especially the names in Swedish). I'll try a painting store soon. I tried beijer butik a few weeks ago to no avail.

And thanks everyone else. I will have to be a bit more careful with that mix than with ferric it seems. Are there any other major dangers with hydrochloric/peroxide mix apart from breathing in and obviously eroding any metal it touches.  10% you said guitarrmageddon??

Cheers,
Steve.

[rocinante]

Also while I'm at it. I have come to understand I will be fine to etch aluminum enclosures in this etchant, just as I would with ferric.

Would that be dependent on having enough copper in the solution (as in after a few batches of copper etching) or could I go right away with aluminum?

Cheers.

[Seljer]

And thanks everyone else. I will have to be a bit more careful with that mix than with ferric it seems. Are there any other major dangers with hydrochloric/peroxide mix apart from breathing in and obviously eroding any metal it touches.  10% you said guitarrmageddon??

Cheers,
Steve.

When diluting it, always add the water first, then the acid!

[rocinante]

Do like you oughta, acid to water...

[guitarmageddon]

It definitely works better on enclosures once it has some copper in it. The composition of the enclosures seems to vary a lot so expect results to vary a little.
My routine is to use a fresh mix to do some boards, then that goes on to be my enclosure etchant. I'm very careful not to breath the fumes when etching boards with my strong acid. I don't know what's coming off it, but I caught a nose-full once and don't wish to repeat the experience. I highly recommend gloves and especially eye protection.
When I'm not using it, I allow it to oxygenate in an open container, which also allows it to evaporate a bit too.
I'm not very scientific about the proportions, and mainly go by color. I like very strong acid (orange/yellow) for boards and milder acid (emerald green) for the enclosures. Generally, the darker the green acid the weaker it will be.
Antiseptic Peroxide can be as weak as 3%. It just means it's got more water in it, but that will still be usable, you'll just need to add more. Be aware your diluting the acid with water at the same time to.

[rocinante]

Thanks for that. I've got a few pcbs that I couldn't etch in ferric that I've been saving for a while. So I might try those before I give the enclosure a go. Less expensive to ruin too if the etching goes awry.

Does anyone know the name of the proper chemical disposal facilities in sweden. Sorry for all the stupid questions but my swedish speaking friends have no idea what I'm taking about when I ask about chemical and ferric chloride solution disposal.

Thanks

[skumberg]

Hej!

Electrokit.com is still in malmö I think. They have Natriumpersulfat for coppar etching. You need to heat it though to 50C. The reaction goes like this Cu+Na2S2O8->Na2SO4+CuSO4
"Kjell" stores also sells this. Not sure if it works on Aluminum.

You could probably get peroxide and hydrochloric acid at Paint stores or Pharmacies. Just use just enough for the card your working on. The etch solution slowly develops Cl gas so you might need a small hole in the tap and don't put it with other tools as they will corrode.

One should not pour ANY etchant solution into the toilet since it contains Cu. The Cu ions cause problems in the water treatment processes. It should be turned in at your nearest environmental station in a bottle marked etching solution and what it contains.

There are two "återvinningscentraler" in malmö, bunkeflo and sjölunda.
Sjölunda: http://www.sysav.se/Templates/avc.aspx?id=362      Map:  http://www.sysav.se/Templates/printavc.aspx?id=362
Bunkeflo: http://www.sysav.se/Templates/printavc.aspx?id=362 Map: http://www.sysav.se/Templates/printavc.aspx?id=375

[rocinante]

Tack skumberg.

You're a hero. I'm going to and have a look after work today!!