Orange Squeezer

[Kipper4]

Todays Project was the R.G Keen schematic of the Orange Squeezer.
Its the first time its happened to me but i broke the leg off a transistor.

please clarify something for me in the schematic the 10k pot Left has a lug that has nothing going to it right.
Ive seen this a few times now.
It is right isnt it ? my printer hasn't just forgot to print something.
If so please can someone explain why the lug goes to nothing.
Newbie question i guess.
Heres a link to the schematic.

http://www.geofex.com/FX_images/orgsqz.gif

[psychedelicfish]

please clarify something for me in the schematic the 10k pot Left has a lug that has nothing going to it right.

The two outer lugs of a pot are basically a set resistor of whatever value the pot is. The wiper (middle lug) is what you change when you turn the pot. The wiper is called the wiper because it slides along the resistor between the outer lugs. If you connect one outer lug to a part of a circuit, and the other outer lug to ground, or another part of a circuit, you have a variable voltage divider, and that is what a volume control is. If you connect one lug to part of a circuit, and the wiper to another, you have a resistor which changes when you turn the pot. You could connect the floating lug to the wiper, and it is generally good practice to do so, but it isn't really necessary, so it hasn't been added to the schematic

[Kipper4]

Great stuff now i understand better thanks for that.

[Kipper4]

I put it on the test rig and it struck up first time.
Get In.
Again its very subtle and a slow attack a bit like the Love Squeeze.
I dont know why i was expecting it to clamp down hard and fast on the signal.


Anyone got any low parts compressors ideas (or Schematics even) that have a variable attack and release and will clamp down hard on the signal.
Thanks

[chptunes]

Anyone got any low parts compressors ideas (or Schematics even) that have a variable attack and release and will clamp down hard on the signal.
Thanks

Jack Orman sells a PCB for his Q&D2 Compressor now.. the heart of the circuit is a SSM2166 chip, which is only available in Surface Mount format these days.  So, Small Bear offers these chips already mounted on through-hole adapters.

I haven't stuffed my Q&D2 PCB yet.. it's on deck.

Link: The AMZ Q&D2 Compressor PCB webpage

Link: Small Bear's Compressor chips webpage


-Corey

[chptunes]

..just noticed that you're in the UK.  Not sure if you order from AMZ and Small Bear.. just a thought.  -Corey

[samhay]

The SSM2166 compressors look pretty nice and is low parts count; or no parts count if you can't find the chip in the UK.
The OTA (CA3080 and LM13700) based compressors - e.g. MXR dyna comp - can usually be made to squeeze hard and/or have variable attack and release times. They are not really low parts count though.
Midway fair has a new fairly simple 'Bearhug compressor' that sounds pretty good, but for really low part counts you might want to try an optical compressor. You can only adjust the attack/release time by swapping out the LDR or vactrol, but you might find you like the way they sound. Shameless plug - take a look at 'Another Optical Compressor'.

[Kipper4]

I will do i'm off to hunt on here for optical compressors
back in a bit.
Thanks for the responses.
I love the bearhug already but i'm gonna have to wait to build it theres some parts i've never owned.

Has anyone done any diode swaps in the orange squeezer.
I didnt have any 100's so i used 1n60 instead.
This is the kind of circuit i'd like to tweak i think so if anyone has any possible mods then i'd be intrested to hear.
As i dont yet feel ready to take larger part pedals i'd like to learn a little about tweeking. Especially since i just got my first breadboard today.

Thanks
Rich

[midwayfair]

I will do i'm off to hunt on here for optical compressors
back in a bit.
Thanks for the responses.
I love the bearhug already but i'm gonna have to wait to build it theres some parts i've never owned.

Has anyone done any diode swaps in the orange squeezer.
I didnt have any 100's so i used 1n60 instead.
This is the kind of circuit i'd like to tweak i think so if anyone has any possible mods then i'd be intrested to hear.
As i dont yet feel ready to take larger part pedals i'd like to learn a little about tweeking. Especially since i just got my first breadboard today.

Thanks
Rich

1n60 is a good sub. I finally settled on 1N60P for several reasons: the Fv is often lower, it's not temperature sensitive, and it costs 4c at Tayda.

I don't think Optical is what you want. Optical Comps are sloooow. I'm actually surprised you think that the FET comps you've built don't have a fast enough attack. I can't even hear the attack in either it's so fast. I'm not sure what the minimum perception time for a human ear is, but I can't imagine it's much below 20ms. If you just want a shorter decay, try swapping the hold caps in them for 1uF. The fact is, any feedback compressor is going to be limited by the actual time it takes for the notes to trigger a rectifier. That's limited by physics, not the variable resistance elements. FETs are about as instantaneous as you can get in a feedback design. I'm not sure that even the SSM2166 will be any faster in a way you can hear.

Merlin B's engineer's thumb MIGHT be a few miliseconds faster, but it's got a long decay. You can shorten the decay, but you'll get pumping. Still, it does clamp down really, really hard very quickly, and stay there for a while.

I'm not sure what the MXR Bass Comp uses, but that thing can get UNDER 1ms.

Edit: It occurs to me that this might do it for you. Ver fast attack, tons of squish:
http://circuitsaladdotcom.files.wordpress.com/2012/11/mosfet-compressor1.gif
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yjtODGypDnk

[Kipper4]

I think your right midwayfairer.
I'm losing my marbles. The attack is too fast to hear i guess i meant i wish i could push it some more to get some more gain reduction out of it, but its just not that kind of compressor is it?
I really like it.

I'm currantly breadboarding the modded version you sent the link to.
If i can get it done before bedtime, i will test it in the morning if i get time. (audits at work tommorow so i have to go in early)

I really liked the reviews on the engineers thumb too. (btw did i say love your you tube reviews, nice playing man)
I might just have to bite the bullet and build one despite the somewhat expensive parts. and larger than my usual project size. So far.
Please note i may be asking loads of dumb questions in the near future.
Thanks for all the help so far.

[midwayfair]

I think your right midwayfairer.
I'm losing my marbles. The attack is too fast to hear i guess i meant i wish i could push it some more to get some more gain reduction out of it, but its just not that kind of compressor is it?
I really like it.

I'm currantly breadboarding the modded version you sent the link to.
If i can get it done before bedtime, i will test it in the morning if i get time. (audits at work tommorow so i have to go in early)

I really liked the reviews on the engineers thumb too. (btw did i say love your you tube reviews, nice playing man)
I might just have to bite the bullet and build one despite the somewhat expensive parts. and larger than my usual project size. So far.
Please note i may be asking loads of dumb questions in the near future.
Thanks for all the help so far.

Actually, you CAN get more gain reduction out of the OS -- you just need a larger signal, and that means the gain mod. I have a thread somewhere around here cataloging a bunch of mods for variable compression on the OS. It's too late to find it right now, but the gist is replace the 10K on pin 2 of the IC with a 10K pot in series with a, say, 2.2K resistor. Be warned it'll be louder, but it'll turn the OS in a squish machine.

Oh -- and my last Engineer's Thumb board cost me less than $5 including the pots. Tayda carries the Lm13700 chip for less than $2 (and all the other parts needed, actually). Break the circuit down into small sections and you'll see that it's SHOCKINGLY simple for how much it does.

[samhay]

That Orange Squeezer mod sounds like something I might try. It might be a good way to make it play nice with both single coils and humbuckers. I have a build with a bias knob that is mostly useless - might have to re-appropriate it as a gain knob.

My earlier suggestion about optical compressors was made, in part, because I didn't read the post properly. Jon's right - LDR/vactrols have relatively slow rise/fall times so their attack is probably not going to be fast enough for you.

[Kipper4]

My mistake Midway i was confusing the DOD 280 with the engineers thumb.
I might just have to build or at least breadboard both in my quest for the ultimate adaptable compresser with the least parts and labour involved and dare i say it the least amount of colour added.

I built a test rig box today for trying my circuits (with true bypass switching)
Then i remembered seeing something about millenium bypass and got curious.
I wished i hadnt got curious, cause now i want to try the millenium bypass.

I still dont know if my test box works i tried it with an effect circuit in the other day before i hooked up the switchs and other bits and i seemed to be getting some RF interferance. (at least thats what i guessed it was)
The box is made of abs.
So before wiring it true bypass i lined the box with aluminium tape to try to erradicate the danger of recieving RF interferance while testing circuits.
Fingers crossed it will work.
I'll post up some pics of my little ghetto test box if i get time tommorow once i've tried it.

[samhay]

Breadboards usually are a bit noisier than boxed circuits - all the linkers flying around are far from optimal. Will be interesting to see if your Al box makes much of a difference.

[bluebunny]

I wished i hadnt got curious, cause now i want to try the millenium bypass.

Ha ha!     Yeah, try it - it's cool.  I don't use it all the time, cos I don't need to (3PDTs are cheap and available these days), but it's a pretty neat solution.

[Kipper4]

It's alright you laughing Mark that's another project to add to the ever growing list.
And i've just about got my retarded brain around True bypass wiring.


Make it stop please

Hahahahaha

[Kipper4]

Just to update you I've breadboarded the modded OS twice now and i havent yet managed to get it going.
I probed it and i'm losing signal right after the 82k resistor on the input.
I'm gonna have to go back and rethink my layout somehow.

It made sense when i did it but i must have overlooked something.

If someone could explain the signal path it might help  (modded OS schematic link above)
thanks

[midwayfair]

If someone could explain the signal path it might help  (modded OS schematic link above)
thanks

Search "Technology of the Orange Squeezer"

[Kipper4]

Thanks mate will do

breadboarded it for a third time and my voltages are all wrong and i'm still not getting any signal past the 82k resistor
grrrr

[midwayfair]

Thanks mate will do

breadboarded it for a third time and my voltages are all wrong and i'm still not getting any signal past the 82k resistor
grrrr

Pull Q1 (the variable FET). Does it work?