Layouts and Copyright infringements

[The Rocket From The Tombs]

Say you were going to sell a clone, how different does your layout have to be from the original pedal, for it not to be a copyright infringement?

[slacker]

Depends how good a lawyer the other side can afford. Your best bet is to make it look nothing like the original and hope for the best.

[The Rocket From The Tombs]

Ah, okay thanks.

[chptunes]

Interesting article from Mr. Orman:  http://www.muzique.com/clones.htm

[mremic01]

You can always trace over the layout and move some traces and components around. I do this a lot anyway to get layouts a bit more like how I want them.

[rankot]

Quite an old topic, but I need to continue. Here's the story: I've ordered a batch of PCBs that I designed using Acoustic 360 preamp as a model. After I built one pedal for myself, I was left with few boards that I decided to sell, so I put an add on e-bay. After some time, I've received a message from guy called George Grexa:

Ok, I'm George, I brought back the Acoustic 360/361 under license from Samick Music. a Global billion dollar company 29 factories around the world. Today Guitar Center owns the name and the words Acoustic 360. They are a 1.4 Billion dollar company, who is owned by a 59 Billion Dollar Company called the Bain Group in Boston. Mitt Romney is a founding member. Now, I am telling you this as a friend. What your doing is illegal. Also your build project will never have the sound of a 360 pre-amp. Back to being illegal. They will slaughter you. You'll loose the court case. Be fined way more than you ever made. And they play hard ball, they might even send Guido to your house. I had a corporation, 2 attorney investors, plus 7 other investors, They wiped us out, and one attorney died mysteriously. This is all true. So, you don't own the copy right, and or anything else. You should cease and desist. Again, I am telling you this as a friend. And besides all the above, If you made a 360, you have stold the original copyright from 1968. You do not own that. Ok, I'm done, Have a great day, great life and don't forget to pull the ad on e-bay, or anywhere else, and try something different.

So I've told him that circuit is not patent protected AFAIK. I didn't publish original schematic or PCB, so I didn't break the copyright. I don't even use Acoustic's name - PCB is called AC360 - that is printed on PCB surface. And I have a right to use name AC360 here where my PCB is produced. Then he replayed:

Your ad says acoustic 360. AC360 is also owned. These aren't little companies. They own this shit globally. Guitar Center has a whole floor of Lawyers, they have copyrighted every version of accoustic , A koustic, acousitt, every thing that rhymes with acoustic. The 360 is FAMOUS. If your boards are called chucks board. That's fine, but if it's the board, that say's it will build an acoustic 360. Your screwed. There has been others before you that have built foot pedals, small pre-amps modeled after the 360, They were all shut down. Went to court and LOST, a few of them are still paying the Billion dollar guys. It's Famous get it, It's like Coke. Pepsi. Marlboro, Winston. McDonald's, Burger King. They'll slaughter you. I'm trying to help you. Stop doing it , do something else, Take down your ad. And enjoy life. Please pay attention. Thanks George

I've checked, AC360 is owned by CNN. So, what do this guy want? What do you people think? Do I have a right to sell that PCB?

[ElectricDruid]

That sounds to me like a lot of nonsense. Somebody is trying to scare you off. It's cheap to do, so it's worth a shot. If he's really got so many billions behind him as he claims, why didn't he get his army of lawyers to send you a proper "cease and desist" notice?

If the circuit isn't protected by patent (and very few are) and you haven't directly copied the original PCB artwork, you're not infringing any copyright at all. Do note however that you can't use trademarked names to sell your product, but you seem to be wise to that already, if as you say the "AC360" trademark is owned by CNN. Since CNN don't operate in the guitar pedal/music technology world, you wouldn't be infringing their trademark either, as far as I can see (trademarks are limited to a specific area of business).

The guy is talking nonsense and trying to scare you off. Probably he's got his own clone coming out next week.

It's worth pointing out that I'm not a lawyer and therefore this is not legal advice. But I think you know that too.

Tom

[PRR]

Free legal advice is worth less than you pay for it.

George is a jerk with nothing else to do.

Copyright law in the US is a complete mess. You are not in the US?

They (or "they") don't kill lawyers over copyright debates. (Cheaper to buy-off a lawyer than hire a good hit-man.)

It is possible an over-zealous lawyer from "them" will contact you. Chrysler objected to "Jeep's Bar", a tiny tavern in the mountains. They usually just want you to stop. They don't gain anything by breaking your kneecaps. Taking your money would cost them more in lawyer-time than you are worth.

[Mark Hammer]

"Stold"?

[Rixen]

Bain do not hold the controlling share in GC anymore, unless something's changed

https://pitchbook.com/news/articles/this-day-in-buyout-history-deluged-by-debt-guitar-center-turns-to-ares

[pinkjimiphoton]

bain dumped GC before romney lost that election years ago.
the guy is full of shit.

here's the thing tho... i bet ya he may have owned it, and lost his shirt. bain are SCUZZBALLS and are responsible for wall-marting all kinds of small businesses. they were what killed my old haunt, daddys junky music. fred was given a choice between paying his employees, or paying bain. he chose his employees. they shut him down that day at noon. would not give him ONE extra day to get the cash together to pay them, and still make his payroll <that his employees had already sued him over and won>.

you are safe as long as you don't sell it as an accoustic 360 preamp. jesus bro, ain't even the same animal!

i wouldn't worry about it. the worst they can do at this point, literally THE WORST legally would be to START with a CEASE AND DESIST order. they can NOT just SUE you. the law doesn't work like that, there are protocols that must be followed.

@#$% this clown. carry on!

[PRR]

Jeep's Bar story:
https://www.upi.com/Archives/1989/09/26/Bar-owner-dispute-with-Chrysler-improved-business/9400622785600/
Sadly, you can't say "My daddy named me that!"

https://www.deseretnews.com/article/38556/JEEP-WANTS-CHRYSLER-TO-GIVE-HIM-ONE.html
https://people.com/archive/chrysler-would-prefer-a-bar-by-any-other-name-but-jeep-molnar-would-rather-fight-than-switch-vol-31-no-13/
Before starting his bar, Jeep was "an itinerant drummer".
He passed a couple years back:
http://www.woodfuneralhome.com/memsol.cgi?user_id=1880196
(Or did "they" send "Guido" to his house, to bump-off a 79 year old man in a nursing home?)

[duck_arse]

Quote
I'm George ..... I am telling you this as a friend. .... you have stold the original copyright from 1968. ....

sounds like he's up on all the high-powered legal talk. I'd have to ask a solicitor what it all means. once I stop laughing.

[rankot]

I've presumed that this is all BS, and especially since I live in Serbia, there's no way they will send anyone here. However, I just wanted to check with you, since I don't want to break anyone's rights. The situation is much more clear right now.

THANKS TO EVERYONE!

[bluebunny]

Your spelling is far better than his, Ranko!  So you win.   

[Kevin Mitchell]

Oh wow. That guy is a complete jack ass. Definitely trying to shake you up. A stranger intimidating you and playing it off as if they're out for your best interest... That mob-like mentality won't do any good.

Let him be a keyboard warrior cooped up in his basement running through the radio scanner with his tinfoil hat trying to find enlightenment through foreign signals.

Okay I took that too far. But that dude is paranoid to all hell. Probably jealous to a point.

Regarding the OP on selling clones... Just don't copy and paste original work and you should be clear from trouble. If you hit the lottery and make substantial profit then would be the time to consider possible legal trouble - big names try to keep a hand in everyone's pocket. But over that... it seems to be a subject of morals. It's a dog-eat-dog world.

[Scruffie]

I agree with Druid it's probably someone trying to release their own 360 Pre and trying to scare off the competition with made up stories, this sentence in particular

Also your build project will never have the sound of a 360 pre-amp.

Kind of a weird thng to spay in a copyright warning.

On the plus side, you made a new friend!

[rankot]

Well, I did some research and found out that this guy really have produced Acoustic 360 amps and boxes, and it seems that he probably had some kind of license for that.

https://web.archive.org/web/20131114033752/http://acousticbassusa.com/

However, site is dead right now.

[MrStab]

Also your build project will never have the sound of a 360 pre-amp.

what's the problem, then?

[rankot]

Yes, he have definitely produced 360/361 reissue: https://www.bassplayer.com/gear/full-circle-360-degrees-of-the-acoustic-360