phaze 45 blend/mix mod?...(tonepad)

[deadastronaut]

experiment 2 results are in: 22k mix mod:

yes it works, but....

fully CCW :  no phase as it should be..but louder.

12'0clock: phase but too quiet.

fully CW : vibey and louder. no phase.

so the elusive ''phase mix/blend'' is still being a bugger....

looks like i'll have to try the buff n blend then... ...if that don't work then i'm at a loss...

this one right..
http://www.google.co.uk/imgres?imgurl=http://www.beavisaudio.com/techpages/blocksfragments/BuffNBlend.gif&imgrefurl=http://www.beavisaudio.com/techpages/blocksfragments/&h=306&w=380&sz=13&tbnid=bTtTA8YD1foswM:&tbnh=90&tbnw=112&zoom=1&usg=__-jC81BiShCaKUEnKH0-iDDgGoNc=&docid=IA65Fl18Y0GmJM&hl=en&sa=X&ei=W10-UbPyBc-R7Abjk4CwAQ&ved=0CDUQ9QEwAQ&dur=512

[kaycee]

Yeah I think there is a bit of a flat spot, but its still worth a go as proof of concept. I have one on a little bit of vero that I try with various circuits. The mix resistors on the 45 are not that arbitrary and messing with them seems mainly to be detrimental to me. If the blend idea works there are various other blenders to try, depends on your space.

I seem to remember something about the output impedance of the 45 being less than ideal but can't find my notes on it at the moment just to add to the general confusion.

[deadastronaut]

i'll give it a go anyway on breadboard and hook it up....see how it goes,

i usually breadboard everything before building to iron out any such problems, but as ive built this before

i just thought the 'mix' 'blend'  mods were a tried n tested success.....unfortunately not it seems....

its probably fine if your just messing around, but if you want it on your setup its got to have any issues sorted...otherwise it just bugs the hell out of me...

back later...

[deadastronaut]

well tried the buff n blend...hmmm not good.....(removed R4) way too quiet with it..)

i note the text on the schematic says ''if the effect overpowers the input'' ....hmmmm no chance of that.

experiment 3 results:

CCW:  nice unity...with bypass

12 0'clock:  phase comes in but gradually gets too quiet at 12 position.....

CW: phaze gets louder but its pretty much the same without any buff n blend.....

hmmmmm.....i'm at  loss...ive tried everything now...seems like theres always going to be a 12'0clock dip issue...

i think i'll stick with my 'dodgy' blend mod...seemed to behave better than any of these....keep it simple stupid eh!!!..


anyway cheers for your help and advice guys, i'm really surprised this hasn't really been tamed as its a very popular effect.....

[deadastronaut]

OK ROUND 2...

anyone successfully made a blend for it without a dip in vol as it gets to 12 oclock.....



tried the beavis 1...nope...vol dip at 12..

tried the mix mod..nope...vol dip at 12

tried all sorts.......

[Paul Marossy]

I think you're never going to get away from "the dip" at 12 o'clock. With the phaser at max, the notches are the deepest, and it will seem as though the volume drops.

When I tried the 25K mix knob, the only action was between 11 o'clock and about 1 o'clock. IMO, the mix knob doesn't work worth a crap because the 10K resistor from the notch section wants to stay a 10K. What really changes the apparent amount of phasing is changing the value of the resistor that is connected between the output of the first opamp and the output right before the 0.05uF cap. What you hear in the phaser is a contrast between the phase shifted signal and the straight thru signal. So what you can get is no phasing, a slightly phased vibrato or full on phasing. There really is nothing else to expect out of the Phase 45.

[deadastronaut]

cheers paul,  an honest and tried n tested appraisal...

[Paul Marossy]

I was messing with my Phase 45 for a long time not too long ago to see how much you can squeeze out of it and what tweaks you can do to it, so I feel pretty well acquainted with that circuit now. 

[deadastronaut]

cheers man,  what about a little lift in overall output  level then?...

[Paul Marossy]

cheers man,  what about a little lift in overall output  level then?...

Change the value of the 10K resistor in the feedback loop of the input opamp (R4 on this schematic). Try a 22K, that will give you a little more gain. You can also mess with the value of the 150K resistor to ground on the output, make it a larger value (R11 on schematic linked above). I think I tried a 220K or 270K, don't remember for sure.

[deadastronaut]

cheers paul, i'll try those out..nice one.



hmmm i'm a dumbass eh!....slaps head.

onn the build reports there is a guy under my report that swappedd the 3.9M for a depth pot....

going to try that...

[deadastronaut]

ok tried the 3.9M pot....hmmm no joy..

gave an interesting offf beat tremolo-ish vibe to it though...but definately not a blend/mx


swapped out the 150k for a 220k, much better unity now, especially with distortion...

[deadastronaut]

ok i upped the 150k, to a 220k..which is better, .any higher made no difference,..i gave up on the blend/depth.

but i'd still like to have a tiny bit more volume out of it, as it dips a little when distortion is on and i love it with distortion, on a really slow sweep.....very van halen, which is surprising for

whats meant to be a 'subtle' phase...nice.

also its fine when clean

ideas?.

[Paul Marossy]

ok i upped the 150k, to a 220k..which is better, .any higher made no difference,..i gave up on the blend/depth.

but i'd still like to have a tiny bit more volume out of it, as it dips a little when distortion is on and i love it with distortion, on a really slow sweep.....very van halen, which is surprising for

whats meant to be a 'subtle' phase...nice.

also its fine when clean

ideas?.

Change the 10K resistor in the feedback loop of the first opamp to a 22K and see if that does it for you.

[deadastronaut]

hi paul, 10k on pins 1-2?  IC1

[Paul Marossy]

hi paul, 10k on pins 1-2?  IC1

It's between pins 6 & 7 (IC-1B) on the schematic HERE

[deadastronaut]

ahhh i got ya now..cheers paul ..

man i really love this phaser, i built one stock ages ago and thought it could do with a tweak or 2..

but never really tried it with distortion...sounds great, swapping the 150k's for 100k's...and a 1M pot for really slow sweep..

it just catches those sustainy freq's that you get with wahs....lovely for hammering, and swells...i put a long delay, with long repeats,  before ithe phaser and did some vol swells....really nice, the delay carries on the phasing nice...

[Paul Marossy]

Yeah, I also love the Phase 45. 

[deadastronaut]

 

[deadastronaut]

sorted, cheers paul ....great with distortion and clean now...its nicely fitting in the live mix now...

heres the mods...with Q's reversed. ...and a 1M pot for really slow sweep