Tone Bender MK1 on Breadboard (Sound Sample with Small Bear TB MK1 Transistors)

[fuzzymuff]

I breadboarded the Tone Bender MK1 and used the Tonebender MK1 transistor set that small bear offers.  I've never played or heard the actual 1965 Tonebender MK1 so I'm playing this by ear based on what I have read online and specially from this forum.  I made a video of my results.  Did my tone bender MK1 breadboard come close to the actual 1965 tone bender MK1 using the small bear tone bender MK1 transistor set?

Here are some specs:
Here are the voltage readings I have on the breadboard:  Source: 9.38v

Transistor set from Small Bear.  http://www.smallbearelec.com/servlet/Detail?no=1311

Q1: 75 hfe, L83, Q2: 106 hfe, L113, Q3: 140 hfe, L157.


Fuzz at max:

Q1:
C= 0.00v
B= -8.51v
E= -8.97v

Q2:
C= -3.89
B= -9.19
E= -9.36

Q3:
C= -0.15
B= -9.34
E= -9.25

Fuzz set to min:

Q1:
C= 0.00v
B= -8.53v
E= -8.94v

Q2:
C= -0.03mv
B= -9.32v
E= -9.35v

Q3:
C= -0.10mv
B= -9.33v
E= -9.35v

I was using a 2010 Gibson Les Paul Junior with P90 pickups and a stock 2007 Fender Blues Jr for this video.

[Ben79]

Sounds great.  Nice sizzle and spit.  Better build myself one of these.

[fuzzymuff]

Sounds great.  Nice sizzle and spit.  Better build myself one of these.

Thanks!!  But, I wonder if it is suppose to sound like this?  Yes, it does sound pretty good, but how close is the tone/sound compared to the real 1965 Sola Sound Tone Bender MK1?  Anyone?

[LucifersTrip]

there's so much variety in the MKI's and you're definitely somewhere in the mix...check out the loads of youtube vids

though, you're voltages are crazy. it almost looks like you have 9's where there should be 0's

the decay sizzles in many builds, but you have a bit more noise than some when it's not decaying...other choices of transistors (Q3 is a bit high) or fine tuning can help

[fuzzymuff]

there's so much variety in the MKI's and you're definitely somewhere in the mix...check out the loads of youtube vids

though, you're voltages are crazy. it almost looks like you have 9's where there should be 0's

the decay sizzles in many builds, but you have a bit more noise than some when it's not decaying...other choices of transistors (Q3 is a bit high) or fine tuning can help

Thanks LucifersTrip.  I don't get either about my voltage readings.  I followed the schematics and checked numerous times for the correct component values and those are the voltages I'm getting.  What am I doing wrong and there is this fizzle tone around 1:32 when the notes decay.  Is that suppose to be there?  How would I go about fine tuning this?  Like I said, the transistors are from Small Bear and was suppose to be matched for the MK1.  The schematic Small Bear even provided were the same ones I used, the one I posted.

What about the leakage with SB transistors, Q1: 75 hfe, L83, Q2: 106 hfe, L113, Q3: 140 hfe, L157?  Are they too low.  I'll swap the Q3 for the Q2 and if that would get rid of the extra noise.

[Merman]

Yeah, the voltages kinda look inverted. Or like the battery voltage has been subtracted.

I like that sound though. Kinda reminds me of the Skinpimp mki clips I've heard. Goes well with monkey brains and baby snakes, etc

You could try flipping q2 and q3 for some variation, or like LT said try some other stuff in q3. Or lower the 8.2k off q3 base. LT's post in the other thread about voltages/leakage/trim pots is a really good read no matter how you wanna go about it, I think. My "generic" mki set from SB is a bit weird and took some fine tuning to get a sound I really liked. I really think tinkering/exploration can be a lot of fun with this fuzz. It doesn't necessarily make sense at first take, even from a user's standpoint. So a big part of getting what you want out of it is learning what you're hearing, what to listen for, that kinda junk.

Obviously you're good at recording whatever sounds you get - that can only help. Guess the man cave has been a busy place! Keep up the good work!

[fuzzymuff]

Yeah, the voltages kinda look inverted. Or like the battery voltage has been subtracted.

I like that sound though. Kinda reminds me of the Skinpimp mki clips I've heard. Goes well with monkey brains and baby snakes, etc

You could try flipping q2 and q3 for some variation, or like LT said try some other stuff in q3. Or lower the 8.2k off q3 base. LT's post in the other thread about voltages/leakage/trim pots is a really good read no matter how you wanna go about it, I think. My "generic" mki set from SB is a bit weird and took some fine tuning to get a sound I really liked. I really think tinkering/exploration can be a lot of fun with this fuzz. It doesn't necessarily make sense at first take, even from a user's standpoint. So a big part of getting what you want out of it is learning what you're hearing, what to listen for, that kinda junk.

Obviously you're good at recording whatever sounds you get - that can only help. Guess the man cave has been a busy place! Keep up the good work!

Hey thanks!!  This forum is GREAT.  Full of knowledgable people.  Yes, I will try out some other transistors and yes, the man cave was a bit busy today.  I didn't even realize it's evening LOL!!!

[fuzzymuff]

While Im trying to tweak out this TB MK1, I made this enclosure.  I saw this enclosure at my local Frys electronics store and thought it looked close enough for a TB MK1 enclosure.  I painted it and drilled it out.  I can't wait to finally tweak this TB MK1 project and put it in this enclosure.

[LucifersTrip]

Thanks LucifersTrip.  I don't get either about my voltage readings.  I followed the schematics and checked numerous times for the correct component values and those are the voltages I'm getting.  

do you have the black lead on the correct rail?

What am I doing wrong and there is this fizzle tone around 1:32 when the notes decay.  Is that suppose to be there?

there's MKI's with all different degrees of fizzle...you really should listen to as many vids as you can and make what you like best. i think the sizzle at 1:32 sounds great

How would I go about fine tuning this?

you won't be in the elite club if you don't use stock values

it's most common to tweak the 8.2K on Q1 and Q3...you can leave it as a trim or make it a "feature" like Fuzzfaceless as an external pot. notice how much noise there is at various spots
http://stompboxes.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=37
Q1 & Q3
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p_cof6xknbY
Q3
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jkn29p1aLdI

Like I said, the transistors are from Small Bear and was suppose to be matched for the MK1.  The schematic Small Bear even provided were the same ones I used, the one I posted.

I hope not to offend anyone at SB, but I don't know if SB had the correct info. Remember, their MKII set was reported recently to put Q3C at 4.5V (common error), so I'm not sure why they're using an uncommonly high hfe Q3

What about the leakage with SB transistors, Q1: 75 hfe, L83, Q2: 106 hfe, L113, Q3: 140 hfe, L157?  Are they too low.  I'll swap the Q3 for the Q2 and if that would get rid of the extra noise.

That's up to experimentation, but all usually need some leakage (at least 100-200uA) to bias correctly. as I noted in the other thread, only when you get close the "right" sound should you start tweaking with trimmers. it is pretty much the hardest fuzz to get just right...

edit:
your enclosure looks great!

[fuzzymuff]

Thanks again LucifersTrip for your great tips and advice.

I will check  if I have the black leads in the proper rail tomorrow and to tweak this TB MK1 project.  I hope to finally put it in the enclosure by tomorrow.....hopefully.  
Yea, I was impressed at myelf also on how my TB MK1 enclosure came out aswell.  Not as nice as the JMI ones, but hell...can't win them all.

[Arcane Analog]

you won't be in the elite club if you don't use stock values

[fuzzymuff]

Well, she is finally finished.  The voltage readings are now much closer to where they are suppose to be...I hope.  She is inside an enclosure.  Very easy build and I did the vero layout and verfied indeed.



Here are the voltages:
Attack Contro @ Max
Q1:
C=-9.33
B=-0.75
E=-0.73

Q2:
C=-5.03
B=-0.16
E=-0.00

Q3:
C=-9.05
B=-0.01
E=-0.00

Attack@Min

Q1:
C=-9.33
B=-0.77
E=-0.75

Q2:
C=-9.28
B=-0.04
E=-0.00

Q3:
C=-9.13
B=-0.01
E=-0.00

She is sounding much better today after swapping the Q3 transistor for Q2.  Q3 had a 149hfe with L149 while Q2 had 109hfe with L108.  I guess the swap made an improvement....I hope.










I got some new tone samples, stay tune.

[fuzzymuff]

Ok after some tweaking.  How does it sound now? 

[jrod]

Yeah! That sounds great!

Your first video sounded exactly like what I was getting on the breadboard. I was getting that same awful noise as the notes started to decay.

What did you tweak to get yours sounding so good?

[rousejeremy]

How much was that enclosure? Looks great.

[fuzzymuff]

Yeah! That sounds great!

Your first video sounded exactly like what I was getting on the breadboard. I was getting that same awful noise as the notes started to decay.

What did you tweak to get yours sounding so good?

I don't think its sounding great yet, but yes it did make an improvement.  I just changed a couple of transistors and putting them in different order until I found a combination that I liked.  Thanks!

[fuzzymuff]

How much was that enclosure? Looks great.

I got it at Frys Electronics for $12.00 USD.  I painted it also.  Its as sturdy as an Electro Harmonix old school big muff enclosure.

[rousejeremy]

It looks bad ass. Sounds great too.

[rousejeremy]

P.S, hope you got some mileage out of Fretboard Logic.

[fuzzymuff]

P.S, hope you got some mileage out of Fretboard Logic.

LOL!!!!  Good eye!!  Yes, it actually helped and gave me a new approach to guitar playing.  The CAGE system is actual easy to understand and helps with music theory.  You will always find your way around the fingerboard.