Green Ringer Mods (revival)

[Brossman]

Sorry to bring up an old thread, but I figured fresher is better for this...

I've heard of many folks using clean boosts (JFET and BJT) and Fuzzes on either end of this effect, claiming it helps to "bring the octave out."

I was curious if anybody has tried this same concept using a compressor instead, as sometimes folks use Comps AS a boost (at least, I've seen it in my neck of the woods)...

As for the technical side, is there any explanation as to how/why a compressed signal might be more/less desirable in this application? (JC? Mark? RG? Brad? PRR?)

I know I can breadboard, but I don't have the components on hand, atm, and would just like to hear what others might have to say. so...
Thoughts?

Thanks, in advance...

[artifus]

hi. compression is the reduction of dynamic range, that is, the difference between your lightest touch and your loudest strum. this compression may be achieved in a number of ways with various audio artefacts.

if you imagine that your guitar produces pure sine waves for a moment (it doesn't), a true compressor would restrict its maximum peak and trough amplitudes whilst retaining the pure sine shape of the wave without distorting it. think visually here. the sine still looks like a sine but smaller. you can then raise the ouput level (the extent of peaks and troughs) to appear louder without too many audio artefacts. you have reduced the signals dynamic range.

you can also reduce dynamic range by 'clipping' the peaks and/or troughs of your sine waves making them look (and sound) squarer and less curvy - flatter tops and bottoms. this is what a booster may do if driven into an input with limited headroom. you have reduced its dynamic range but introduced audio artefacts - you have distorted the sine and produced harmonics, altering the signals sonic signature and you are heading towards fuzz territory.

in the case of the ring modulator i think you are presenting the input with a stronger fundamental frequency for the circuit to latch on to and act upon. harmonic may upset this but in turn produce a desirable effect.

hope that makes sense - stream of conscious typing...

[Brossman]

Thankyou.  Quite intriguing. The differences seem to be so miniscule...

So to sum up, using either first, you reduce the dynamic range of the signal BEFORE it gets to the input of the GR.  However, the method of dynamic reduction and subsequently, the addition of artifacts (harmonics) are different, so produce different results.  Yes, I think I understand.

in the case of the ring modulator i think you are presenting the input with a stronger fundamental frequency for the circuit to latch on to and act upon.

Do you mean with using an OD or Comp? or either? Regardless, do you believe that this would act to "enhance" the octave effect?

[Mustachio]

Arti covered your question real well and I don't have anything really to say to add to that part. nice explanation artifus !

In terms of the green ringer having a stronger more apparent octave , at least from when I had one I found rolling the tone back on my guitar or running a pedal before it with the tone down to feed the GR with a low muffled tone brought out the high octave much better , overall more apparent and seemed like better tracking.

Might be able to adjust some caps or something I'm not totally sure. But there was some info on mods at the GGG site.

http://www.generalguitargadgets.com/projects/22-octave/131-green-ringer

the filter switch mod looks pretty good. I need to build a new GR soon! Was one of my fav's!

[Mark Hammer]

The Green Ringer is an octave fuzz.  It is not a particular good fuzz, but in the process of producing an octave doubling it does produce a fuzz.

Because that fuzz is generated vis the diodes used for rectification, that automatically means there is a sort of threshold effect, in that the signal must be above some minimum to yield the desired outcome.

If you simply boost the signal feeding the GR, then that input will be above the threshold for a while longer than usual.  But, since guitar signals have a naturally quick decay from initial attack,  boosting will still result in the note sputtering, just farther along from the initial pick attack.  Use of compression can serve to keep the input signal to the GR above threshold for a somewhat longer period.

Since you can vary the amount of compression and still have a boosted output, a compressor serves as an ideal "front end", since you can set how hard you push the GR, and how long you push it at some designated level.

I've mentioned this Distortion+/Ampeg Scrambler thing I have, where the Dist+ front end allows one to do something very similar to what the suggested compressor does.  As an overdrive pedal, with independant drive and output level, you can set it for a very compressed overdriven sound, but pull back on the output level so that the Scrambler (another octave fuzz) produces a sustaining octave up, or you can turn the gain down to retain more dynbamics, and the octaving only kicks in at the start of the note and quickly disappears.  Very different feel.

[moosapotamus]

The first pedal I ever built from scratch, many moons ago
combination stratoblaster / green ringer / orange squeezer

~ Charlie

[thehallofshields]

I've just built a Green Ringer with the 'Filter Mod' and a Colorsound Fuzz on the front-end and it sounds amazing.

The high output of the fuzz gives the Rectified signal plenty of sustained octave. The filter mod keeps pulls all the metallic mess out of the sound.

In mine I've also added:

Blend Control - Sometimes a little bit of octave stepping out of the distortion is nice, other times having a little bit of fuzz to the ringer gives definition to powerchords.

Output Cap Blending - Controls the bass. The filter mod can leave your signal dark or muddy, so this helps carve a more overdrive like sound. Input cap blending killed the volume/ octave sustain with my build.

I've been playing with partially bypassing one diode (500k pot) but haven't gotten anything useful out of that yet.