Wrinkly Waterslide Decal?

[moosapotamus]

First time trying waterslide decal.  What did I do wrong?

Used white waterslide decal stock for laser printers.  Printed the decal using my Samsung laser printer - looked good.  Drilled, sanded and primed my enclosure with etching primer.  Then spray painted and gave it several coats of clear enamel - nice and smooth.  Let dry overnight.  Applied the decal to the enclosure, let it dry overnight, again - still lookin good.  Then sprayed with 4 or 5 more coats of the same clear enamel.  Several hours later, the decal has all these fine wrinkles throughout, like a raisin.

Anyone have any idea what I might have did wrong?

Thanks
~ Charlie

[John Lyons]

The solvents in the top coat have re wet the coats under it.
This causes the paint/decal/paint sandwich to shift and causes the wrinkles.
You need to dry a bit longer and or use lighter coats so there isn't as much
paint (and solvents) to re wet the coats under the decal.

[jimilee]

I don't usually clear coat before the water slide, only after. That is an odd reaction.

[Canucker]

I was under the impression that you put the decals on before adding any clearcoat too. I have yet to do any decals or clear coating but its my next mission.

[chromesphere]

Inkjet waterslides require a clearcoat before wetting, otherwise the ink will run off the waterslide when it gets wet.
LaserJet Waterslides don't require clearcoat before wetting because toner is waterproof.
Cheers,
Paul

[Kesh]

Inkjet waterslides require a clearcoat before wetting, otherwise the ink will run off the waterslide when it gets wet.
LaserJet Waterslides don't require clearcoat before wetting because toner is waterproof.
Cheers,
Paul

OP means clearcoat on the enclosure, not the decal.


OP, don't clearcoat the enclosure prior to decal.

Importantly, allow more drying time before decal, and especially after decal. It takes a while to get the water out of the decal.

[chromesphere]

Inkjet waterslides require a clearcoat before wetting, otherwise the ink will run off the waterslide when it gets wet.
LaserJet Waterslides don't require clearcoat before wetting because toner is waterproof.
Cheers,
Paul

OP means clearcoat on the enclosure, not the decal.


OP, don't clearcoat the enclosure prior to decal.

Importantly, allow more drying time before decal, and especially after decal. It takes a while to get the water out of the decal.

Misread Kesh!  Carry on
Edit: helps when you read the OP's question fully Yeah, no need to clearcoat the enclosure before applying the decal.  Just after.  I think someone already said it, but the only time I have had wrinkling problems is when I have applied the final clearcoat before the decal is fully dry.
Paul

[alparent]

Enamel as a very strong/harsh solvent. Very strand stuff if you are a decal!

I use kinder water base stuff to clear coat decals.

[GGBB]

I clearcoat with enamel both before and after the decal - that is not a problem.  As John pointed out - it's probably your dry time before you put the decal on.  Also use thin coats - especially on top of the decal - a thick coat can pucker the decal.  Always pay attention to the dry times and recoat window listed on the paint can.

[markeebee]

I've started using self-adhesive film instead of decal stock.  This stuff: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/130740044923?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649.  This is the clear version, it comes in white as well.

The film I used before was pretty thick and so needed a lot of clear coats to make it disappear.  This stuff is quite different to any I've seen before, it's almost as thin as decal stock, but a lot easier to play with.  Downside is it's pretty sticky, so you have to get your positioning right first time, but once it's in place it ain't never gonna wrinkle/curl/shrink.

Also, the stuff I linked to can be printed by inkjet and the colours are quite strong.  I bought a colour laser printer (admittedly quite a cheap one) to print colour decals, but the quality of print I get using this self-adhesive stock and an inkjet is far, far better.

[moosapotamus]

Thanks for all the replies!

Basecoat drying time... that makes sense.

The spray paint that I used was flat, not gloss.  So, I clear coated the enclosure before I applied the decal because I read that you want the surface to be as smooth as possible.  Seemed to me that would be the same as applying the decal to a gloss painted surface, anyway.

All my paint & clearcoat was Rustoleum enamel.  The instructions say recoat any time, completely dry in 24 hours.  I did wait 24 hours, but it's been a little chilly and damp here recently.  Maybe a little baking in the utility toaster oven, prior to applying the decal, would have helped, too.  Next time...

Although unintended, I wouldn't say that the wrinkling is totally ugly.  In fact, with the right colors in the decal, I imagine it could have a sort of faux leather look, maybe.

Thanks!
~ Charlie

[GGBB]

I've started using self-adhesive film instead of decal stock.  This stuff: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/130740044923?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649.  This is the clear version, it comes in white as well.

The film I used before was pretty thick and so needed a lot of clear coats to make it disappear.  This stuff is quite different to any I've seen before, it's almost as thin as decal stock, but a lot easier to play with.  Downside is it's pretty sticky, so you have to get your positioning right first time, but once it's in place it ain't never gonna wrinkle/curl/shrink.

Also, the stuff I linked to can be printed by inkjet and the colours are quite strong.  I bought a colour laser printer (admittedly quite a cheap one) to print colour decals, but the quality of print I get using this self-adhesive stock and an inkjet is far, far better.

Mark - do you clearcoat this afterward?  If not, how well does the ink/toner stand up to abuse over time?  I also wonder if the vinyl will yellow the paint over time.

[John Lyons]

Charlie
Lights coats are goo because they will not re wet the under coats as much.
Even though a layer is cured, when you spray a new coat on the solvents re wet the
cured coats. Just like if you painted something and wanted to remove it with solvent.
The new spray is as if you sprayed your box with paint thinner... The decal makes it
even more of a problem since it will buckle as mentioned.

I use clear lacquer on the painted box, apply the decal and then add more laquer coats.
This melts the decal into the under layer and seals it in. Dries in 20 minutes to the touch
and each coat melts into the next.

[moosapotamus]

Thanks, John!

So, clear lacquer is better than enamel for decals? How long do you let your lacquer base cure before applying the decal? How long for the decal to dry before recoating with more lacquer?

It's my understanding that putting lacquer on top of enamel is a no-no, and I had enamel as my base color. Guess I will need to ditch the enamels if I stick with decals.

~ Charlie

[markeebee]

Mark - do you clearcoat this afterward?  If not, how well does the ink/toner stand up to abuse over time?  I also wonder if the vinyl will yellow the paint over time.

Yes, definitely necessary to clearcoat after.  If you rub the print quite hard with your finger the ink smudges a little, so I wouldn't expect it to look good for very long without some protection.  No idea if the vinyl will yellow the paint any more/less than a waterslide.....ask me again in a couple of years

Lately I've been sticking the labels on to the back of a perspex plaque thingy, and then painting the back of that.  It's a whole lot quicker than sticking the label to the box and clearcoating a gazillion times.  I had the plaques lazer cut, worked out about a pound each or something.  Did these ones with sparkly paint....

[Kipper4]

cool work Mark. Love the poontwang.

[John Lyons]

Thanks, John!

So, clear lacquer is better than enamel for decals?
In my opinion, yes. But there are a lot of people who use enamel.

How long do you let your lacquer base cure before applying the decal?
About an hour is fine. More time even better.

How long for the decal to dry before recoating with more lacquer?
Depends on the temperature (water dries slower). Put it in front of a fan and that helps a lot.
I'd say a couple hours in front of a fan in 60-70 degree temperature.

It's my understanding that putting lacquer on top of enamel is a no-no,
and I had enamel as my base color.
As long as it's cured it should be fine. I've used lacquer over hammertone sprays with
great results. Light coats of lacquer will be best. No nee to sand between coats but you can. (I don't)
TIP: If you spray from a couple feet or more away you can get a semi matte/speckled finish that looks nice.
The lacquer semi dries in the air...

~ Charlie

[GGBB]

Yes, definitely necessary to clearcoat after.  If you rub the print quite hard with your finger the ink smudges a little, so I wouldn't expect it to look good for very long without some protection.  No idea if the vinyl will yellow the paint any more/less than a waterslide.....ask me again in a couple of years

Lately I've been sticking the labels on to the back of a perspex plaque thingy, and then painting the back of that.  It's a whole lot quicker than sticking the label to the box and clearcoating a gazillion times.  I had the plaques lazer cut, worked out about a pound each or something.  Did these ones with sparkly paint....

Very nice!