Transfer Advice...pnp, photo paper, magazine paper..other?

[artifus]

welcome to the wonderful world of capitalism.

[CodeMonk]

I've been using photo paper for years.
Works for me, but I have to get the really thin stuff since my cheap ass printer can't pick up the thicker stuff.
I think its max paper weight is either 24lbs or 32lbs.
It an HP Laserjet 4P and its seen better days.
I do have the service manual for it. Been thinking about taking it apart and cleaning it.

I've tried magazine paper (from actual magazines) but had trouble.
If I could get ahold of blank magazine paper, I would give it another shot.

I tried some clear contact paper the other day. Seemed to print on the paper ok.
Haven't tried the thermal transfer yet though.

[artifus]

contact paper - is that like the backing paper from self adhesive labels? has anyone tried that?

[Labaris]

...

new to toner transfer having recently acquired a laser printer. still a little nervy with it so have been wary with media. yet to try magazine paper even. some success so far. experimented a little with uv without much success last year before the inkjet died, may try again sometime since i've made the light box, but will stick to transfer for now having picked up a little a6 laminator for pennies in a junk shop which works quite well - less effort than ironing anyhow.

How do you use the laminator?

[artifus]

How do you use the laminator?

i can't stream video on this connection right now - i hope this is what i was thinking of: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=dS4HQfceK88

there are many other examples online - google 'pcb laminator toner' or some such. i use it instead of a clothes iron.

[CodeMonk]

contact paper - is that like the backing paper from self adhesive labels? has anyone tried that?

No, but that sounds like a good idea too.

I got the idea to try that because someone posted it in the dollar store thread.
Its kind of like label paper on a roll.
Its mostly used on shelves.
This stuff : http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B001B36F72/
Or:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000F8T5QM/

Google "Clear Contact Paper".

I cut a few pieces to size and put them between two pieces of glass to flatten them out.
The test piece I used, I cut it a little short, peeled off a little of the backing paper, and adhered it to a normal piece of paper (It never really flattened out).
The roll I have I found in the garage. Its a few years old so its probably never gonna flatten out.

[TheWinterSnow]

Since I started making PCBs  little over a year ago, I have always used the presensitized photoresist copper clad board method.  For the most part where I live it is cheaper and considering my resources it was cheaper for me to start up making PCBs that way.  I know from around here that a lot of the guys using the PnP Blue or laser/iron method do so because they could never get the photoresist method to work.  I know first hand experience that it does have a steep learning curve, but once you learn how to do it correctly, it is extremely tight.  My registration now after building a UV box is so tight that I could easily make boards with 7 mil traces and 2-4 mil spacing and not think twice about it.  I could probably go even tighter which means more accurate than most board houses, but have never attempted it.  

Once you get the hang of the photoresist method, you really realize how amateur the Laser/Iron or PnP method is, which in realistically is catered towards the DIY guys.  Those who want to step up their game and make tighter boards or at least aim to make their PCBs the way professional companies make PCB will eventually find how to wrangle the bull when it comes to the photoresist method.

The great thing about presensitized boards is that you don't have to worry about cleaning them and scrubbing them to remove oxides and also you can reuse the transparencies.  So for any repeat board you make the only cost is the presensitized board, which for me I can get a single sided 9"x6" board for $9 USD.  For most stompbox pedals that can get your 8-12 PCBs.

[jmwreck]

I'm going to find out. Bout to order some.

EDIT.   nevermind........I just read the sellers feedback comments.

the comments were good, right?

Does it leave residue on the copper or aluminium?

no it doesn't. the ironing time is much lesser compared to the standard papers I've known. it also doesn't need water, once the board cools off, you can peal the paper and it will remove smoothly. for the aluminum, just be thorough on how you iron it.

[artifus]

@codemonk - that sounds like what that guy calls vinyl in that instructable i linked to?

*also* no mention of board quality as yet - anything to look out for?

[CodeMonk]

@codemonk - that sounds like what that guy calls vinyl in that instructable i linked to?

I think its different stuff.
Contact paper has an adhesive on one side.

[kodiakklub]

im using this stuff at the moment: http://www.pcbfx.com/main_site/pages/products/transfer_paper.html

slightly different than PnP, with a laminator. laminator so much more consistent than the iron for me anyway. will def try mag/photo paper next.

[CodeMonk]

@codemonk - that sounds like what that guy calls vinyl in that instructable i linked to?

*also* no mention of board quality as yet - anything to look out for?

Ok, contact paper is questionable.
The first 2 I tried, it skated all over the copper blank.
The third one, I just set the iron on top of it, without moving the iron around.
It stuck to the iron. I would suggest a piece of normal paper in between the iron and the contact paper.
Did the 4th one.
This time I cut the board oversized and taped the contact paper to the copper blank.

FAIL!:





Hmm...Maybe if I turn the temperature on the iron down, it may help. I dunno.
Contact paper is very thin and gets VERY soft while ironing.
I had the iron on there for 20 seconds and didn't move it or apply any pressure, just the weight of the iron.
Also left a lot of residue on the copper.

I may try it later tonight.
If I can get a good transfer, then I will try to etch and see if that residue has any effect on etching.

[chromesphere]

Sticker backing paper!!  Still havent tried this...im going ot have to give it a go...
We use a4 sheets at the office for posting labels.  I would imagine you would have to be careful handling it, but the idea of not needing to rub off paper is an appealing one!
Paul

[CodeMonk]

Thats probably my next test.

I tried the contact paper.
Tried about 10 boards, varying temps, times, pressure.
All failed.
I have one last test going currently.
Have the iron set just above half temp.
Rubber band holding it down.
Gonna let it sit for about 10 minutes.
Then turn off the iron and let it cool down, then check it to see how it did.
Obviously, if this is what it takes to make it work, its not really worth the hassle and time.
With a board this size, it takes about 30 seconds of ironing and its good when using photo paper.

Although I am curious it would work with a laminator.


Edit:
And that picture of the board above?
The contact paper is still on the PCB, just kind of hard to see it.
When I peeled it off, most of the toner went with it.

[Perrow]

I've never had any issues just using regular fluorescent tubes/bulbs to expose the boards. Does take a longer exposure ~9min and needs to be close to the tubes,  1"/2.5cm, but really couldn't be simpler.

dave

I got times up to about an hour when doing the fluorescent tube thingy, that's why I turned to first an old UV "sun lamp" then the led. The box with the led was a fun little project too  

[deadastronaut]

^ yep, ive said it before, but eddystones are a different animal compared to hammonds...

hammonds are a lot harder to sand, i tried an NSC  box too,(the competition box, that were still waiting to see btw ) and that was an utter soab to sand...stay away..unless you want one big arm..

eddystones are like butter compared...i stick with those. and glossy 150gsm.

What's the difference between Hammond and Eddystone? Hammond purchased Eddystone in 1998. See this link
Are there two different types of boxes made by the same manufacturer (Hammond)?

definately....

i think they are just made in different castings, in different countries...with different properties.

eddystone soft...hammond hard.

[jmwreck]

the paper that I'm using won't leave any residue whatsoever, it can be peeled without water, just let everything cool down and that's it, I'm using the highest temperature for the iron.

[deadastronaut]

this is the paper that I've been using, it works 100% accurate for me, ebay link, anyone tried this yet?

looks good,..the write up is a weird translation.....


is it like grease proof paper..?

(heads to the kitchen )

[chromesphere]

Just used sticker backing paper.  It has a few quirks that you have to watch out for (don't touch the page or fold it as the toner will fall / scratch off very easily).  But the actually transferring of the toner was soooooooooo much easier then magazine paper.  Also the resolution of the transfer looks much better, the edges are relatively sharp.  I think i'm going to refine it further, its a lot less work them magazine paper with better results!

Here's a related question. When your removing the toner it shifts and sticks to the fiberglass substrate.  How do you avoid or reverse that from happening? Cause you know...its looks like s!@#...

[jmwreck]

this is the paper that I've been using, it works 100% accurate for me, ebay link, anyone tried this yet?

looks good,..the write up is a weird translation.....


is it like grease proof paper..?

(heads to the kitchen )

im not quite sure if it's grease proof   when i peel it off, the glossy part of the paper is still intact, it can be recycled but I haven't tried it.