Transfer Advice...pnp, photo paper, magazine paper..other?

[CodeMonk]

I've been a DIY'er since I was a kid.
I'm always taking one thing meant for another use and trying to make it work for my own perverted purposes.
Sometime it works, sometimes it doesn't.

[deadastronaut]

cheers pakrat, i'll stick with what works for me then..

@codemonk...tthats a bummer, hope you get it fixed..

[chromesphere]

Hey Rob, out of curosity, what method do you usually use?

[deadastronaut]

^ 150 gsm glossy photo paper, toner, hot iron, let cool to almost cold.., peel off...no residue, no wet rubbing etc...very clean.

PCB''S :  etch, rub off toner with 'worn' fine wet n dry...wet...done.

BOXES: from new, sand 120-180 till flat.  ....( same as above)  etch, sand with 400-600. paint, sand etch with 400-600.......drill...clearcoat.

[chromesphere]

It sounds like glossy photo paper has a similar transfer effect as sticker backing paper...?  Might be a good alternative for those that cant get sticker backing paper.

Also, i wonder if sanding off the toner prevents it from sticking to the substrate...this might be where im going wrong.  Removing it with acetone and cotton pads aint working for me...

Thanks to all in the this thread, i have gained so much

Paul

[Tony Forestiere]

Xerox/Laser toner is usually polystyrene.

The classic solvents are toluene and xylene (the smell in model cement). They rot your liver, give mice tumors, are not essential for most household work.... you may not be able to buy small quantities.(*)

http://www.bangslabs.com/sites/default/files/bangs/docs/pdf/Solvent_Listing.pdf lists acetone as a PS solvent. My experience is that it is almost useless. I suspect this is a list of what "might" soften PS, not a list of what WILL eat the stuff right off.

Toner is also binders and pigments. It could be that a binder coats the PS dust and resists the usual solvents.

Brake Kleener is nasty stuff. It takes the paint right off an engine. It rots your liver. It is super flammable. (*)It does contain toluene and xylene.

Make friends with your local copier/printer tech. They may carry some "pink stuff" with a brand name like Sel-Solv or D-Ink. It is formulated to clean fused toner with just a little quantity/mild wiping with a rag. A little dab'll do ya. Works great and smells noxious. Wear nitrile or latex gloves though. As Paul said, this stuff has nasties in it. Also, it leaves a bit of oily residue, so here's where the acetone comes in.

edit: Beats the hell out of the Fedron we used in the 80's. That stuff was REALLY bad for you. Absorbed through the skin and cumulatively deposited in the liver. http://siri.org/msds/f2/bbk/bbkmp.html

[J0K3RX]

cleaning the fuser is not going to work if upper roller is damaged or worn, which is highly likely from looking at your prints. I have had luck just using alcohol but not very often and given the age of your printer it is probably due for replacement. I wouldn't try to clean it unless you can clearly see that there's something stuck to the roller! And I would not use anything other than alcohol! Acetone, no way!  You can try a fuser rebuild kit I have had good luck with them... That isn't a bad laser printer when all in good working order, really a work horse for the size!

Look here.. if your upper roller looks anything like the one in the picture then you need to replace it or the entire fuser assembly...
http://www.feedroller.com/store/product_info.php?products_id=1157
The worn areas vary from printer to printer so yours may be worn on the left side from looking at the pics?

 

[chromesphere]

Xerox/Laser toner is usually polystyrene.

The classic solvents are toluene and xylene (the smell in model cement). They rot your liver, give mice tumors, are not essential for most household work.... you may not be able to buy small quantities.(*)

http://www.bangslabs.com/sites/default/files/bangs/docs/pdf/Solvent_Listing.pdf lists acetone as a PS solvent. My experience is that it is almost useless. I suspect this is a list of what "might" soften PS, not a list of what WILL eat the stuff right off.

Toner is also binders and pigments. It could be that a binder coats the PS dust and resists the usual solvents.

Brake Kleener is nasty stuff. It takes the paint right off an engine. It rots your liver. It is super flammable. (*)It does contain toluene and xylene.

Make friends with your local copier/printer tech. They may carry some "pink stuff" with a brand name like Sel-Solv or D-Ink. It is formulated to clean fused toner with just a little quantity/mild wiping with a rag. A little dab'll do ya. Works great and smells noxious. Wear nitrile or latex gloves though. As Paul said, this stuff has nasties in it. Also, it leaves a bit of oily residue, so here's where the acetone comes in.

edit: Beats the hell out of the Fedron we used in the 80's. That stuff was REALLY bad for you. Absorbed through the skin and cumulatively deposited in the liver. http://siri.org/msds/f2/bbk/bbkmp.html

Not sure if that was directed at me Tony, but thanks for posting!  I think this explains the blackening issue im having (acetone doesnt dissolve it, it softens it).  I'll try sand paper next time, cheers!

[pakrat]

Mine cleared up after a bunch of printing. I took out the cartridge and shook it around and printed 10 pages or so.

[pakrat]

I etched a board tonight so I decided to chronicle it to share what works for me. I doubt this will teach anyone anything new, but it's really fast and consistent.

First, I print the transfer onto semi-gloss magazine paper.



Then I fire up the laminator and let it heat up while I work.



Then measure and cut the board roughly to size.



Lightly sand the board with 1000 grit.



Clean the board with naptha/lighter fluid.


Put the the transfer on the board and send it through the laminator.



When it comes out the other side.....

It's done!

Run under luke warm water.



Rub the transfer off.



Ready to etch.



I use plastic bowls to etch, one with the etchant in it, and another larger bowl with hot water in it to heat the etchant.



Agitating the etchant makes it etch faster.



Almost done!



Rinse....



Then use acetone to clean off the toner.




And finished.




Of course, now it's time for my least favorite part.... drilling 

Ok, so who's next up to bat? 

[davent]

^Your results are great! How thick is the copperclad that you're using seeing as you're cutting it with scissors/shears?

dave

[pakrat]

Thanks Dave! The board I use is FR-4 .060 1oz copper. It's pretty thick and durable. I get it from this guy:  http://stores.ebay.com/PCB-Laminates-Copper-Clad?_trksid=p2047675.l2563
By the way, I love your builds! I saw a brief tutorial over at madbean's forum for your Improvised Explosive Device and it is just amazing. I'd love to see more of how you do your artwork, it is STUNNING!

[chromesphere]

Nice results pakrat!  I see you use acetone to remove the toner which makes me thing im don't something wrong, cause mine blackens big time...also that magazine paper came off very neatly!  I think the mag paper I have used in the past has been too fiberous with not enough gloss...
Paul

[deadastronaut]

^Your results are great! How thick is the copperclad that you're using seeing as you're cutting it with scissors/shears?

dave

yeah i was going to ask that...cool, i hate sawing copper clad....that looks much easier, and no dust too....brilliant.


now build that chorus ...tip: add a volume, remove the 10k at the right of ic2 and use a jumper...then use a 100k pot on output....much better imo.

you get unity, and a boost ...i just did it as i like to kick it up a bit with distortion..

[CodeMonk]

...

Put the the transfer on the board and send it through the laminator.



When it comes out the other side.....

It's done!
...

I've been curious and wanting to try the laminator route.
Most of the lower priced (under $100 US) laminators I have looked at though have a max thickness of around 5 mil. Which according to http://www.onlineconversion.com/length_all.htm comes out to around 0.127 mm.
Which is a bit thinner than copperclad .
So far I have only looked at Office Depot though.

Suggestions?

[pakrat]

@ Paul  Maybe the acetone doesn't work well for you because of the toner your printer uses?

@Rob H  Those are sheet metal shears I cut the board with. It works pretty well but I sometimes need to follow up with some sandpaper if I want it perfect. Be careful trying it on thinner boards or that CEM stuff.... it can crack. And thanks for the tips on the CE-2, now I know who to msg when I have problems with it    P.S. I think it's time you put out an etching tutorial because your boxes always look pristine!

@Rob J  The laminator I use is an old Model 6000. The boards barely make it through and sometimes I follow the board with a piece of scrap to help it along. You can find them on ebay for around $100 and it is a nice quality machine. The only reason I even tried it is because I HATE ironing!!

The next thing to try for enclosures is this:

[CodeMonk]

I'm not sure what the one in this video costs, but I found similar ones for under $100, and several under the $50 mark.
http://www.walmart.com/ip/Scotch-Thermal-Laminator-2-Roller/17208765#ProductDetail

Walmart has a bunch in the $30 - $40 range, but from that video, whenever I do decide to get a laminator, I think I'm going for a 2 roller one.
I don't mind the ironing too much, but a laminator seems like it would be much more consistent.

And what the hell is that thing?
Looks like some kind of press.

[davent]

Guessing a 'simple' heated press.

[pakrat]

Yes, it's a heat press. A friend of mine who is a machinist made it for my xmas present. It's all steel plate and has a hot plate element in it with the temp control too. I think it gets up to 450 degrees which is more than enough to etch an enclosure. I haven't tried it yet because I had to add a piece of high heat silicone to the top plate to make up for inconsistencies on the boxes. I hope it works....

[chromesphere]

Yes, it's a heat press. A friend of mine who is a machinist made it for my xmas present. It's all steel plate and has a hot plate element in it with the temp control too. I think it gets up to 450 degrees which is more than enough to etch an enclosure. I haven't tried it yet because I had to add a piece of high heat silicone to the top plate to make up for inconsistencies on the boxes. I hope it works....

Pakrat, i think i speak for everyone here when i say, thats freaking hot as!  (pun intended)