what is a good easy noisegate?

[pinkjimiphoton]

to build? hopefully with a verified vero layout?

any suggestions? i got a "joyo" in the mail today, it works with CRANKED dirt before it, but sounds like poo to the point i'm thinkin' i may be better off building my own...

[Mustachio]

Heya Jimi!

Man I been thinking about building one as well , and it just seems hard to find the right one to build when it comes to noise gates. Maybe we can work together and build a few and post what we think about em. I was actually doing a search last night on this forum and I found more threads of people being "not to sure" or "not happy" with them, compared to people having great success.

that being said here's 2 vero's I ran across a while back I had saved to build some day.

[pakrat]

I built the tonepad MXR noise gate with mods pcb version and I still can't get it to work. Some people report it working great, some report no workie. I'd love to get it sorted though and still have my board sitting on the bench if you need me for testing.

[pinkjimiphoton]

the mxr looks easiest to me... then there's this, too... i REALLY liked this guy's tremolo, so, maybe this will be good... neither vero is verified, i've been toying with trying one...

[psychedelicfish]

There's always Gaines noise gate
http://hammer.ampage.org/?cmd=lt&xid=&fid=&ex=&pg=8
Not too complicated...

[pinkjimiphoton]

i'm actually being fairly surprised by this cheap pos joyo...

it's USELESS with clean tones. all ya hear is a horrible buzzy high pitched distortion with the clean signal. if ya turn it up enough to nuke the noise, well,
there went your guitar.

but with distortion in front of it,

WOW. surprising. can tame the hum and noise from my tele into my big muff, even with muff cranked and diode clippers bypassed for more overdrive.
can even still use my guitar knob.

maybe this thing's worth keeping after all.

still wanna build one tho... anybody have any actual success with any of these circuits? i know that's a loaded and dumb question, but seems like they create as many problems as they solve.

[J0K3RX]

Stupid question, maybe but, why would anyone use a noise gate for clean sounds? Also, why are you getting noise with your clean sound?

[pinkjimiphoton]

well, ya may use a noise gate on clean sounds to knock down mains noise, or hum from single coils, rfi interference etc.

i leave gates on often faintly on my amp and pedalboard to help nuke all the ROAR of all the crap i use. the boss one built into the me8 i've been using live is great. i turn it up just enough to nuke some of the noise and hiss from my toneblaster and the suzy q.

i believe it's getting that weird noise because all it has is a threshold control... without the release, it doesn't track the envelope of your guitar as well.
in this one's case, pretty sure it's meant to be used cranked up after some mondo gained dirt pedals, cuz for that, it works great!

but ya may not think ya need a gate on clean stuff, but sometimes it can really make clean things pop.

but not this joyo pos.

strictly for filth.

[J0K3RX]

well, ya may use a noise gate on clean sounds to knock down mains noise, or hum from single coils, rfi interference etc.

i leave gates on often faintly on my amp and pedalboard to help nuke all the ROAR of all the crap i use. the boss one built into the me8 i've been using live is great. i turn it up just enough to nuke some of the noise and hiss from my toneblaster and the suzy q.

i believe it's getting that weird noise because all it has is a threshold control... without the release, it doesn't track the envelope of your guitar as well.
in this one's case, pretty sure it's meant to be used cranked up after some mondo gained dirt pedals, cuz for that, it works great!

but ya may not think ya need a gate on clean stuff, but sometimes it can really make clean things pop.

but not this joyo pos.

strictly for filth.

Have you considered a JSX noise gate incorporated into your pedal or pedals? Doesn't get any simpler than that, 2 diodes and a pot or resistor if you don't want to adjust! The tracking and release are unbeatable! You can also use a dual gang gain/noisegate pot and have it track your gain when you turn it up... It works remarkably well, Just a thought..

Here is one out of one of my preamps but you get the idea... Once you get past the idea that it's not for clipping you will be just fine...

[Jdansti]

I built a Gaines noise gate and it is really nice. It's what I'd expect from a professional unit. If you do the full controls version, you get threshold, release, attack, attenuation, and key (trigger a-la Phil Collins). You can also leave off all of the controls except threshold. The LED turns off and on as the gate opens and closes, which helps you adjust the threshold. Sorry, but I'm not aware of a Vero version.

http://hammer.ampage.org/files/GainesNoiseGate.PDF

[pinkjimiphoton]

well, ya may use a noise gate on clean sounds to knock down mains noise, or hum from single coils, rfi interference etc.

i leave gates on often faintly on my amp and pedalboard to help nuke all the ROAR of all the crap i use. the boss one built into the me8 i've been using live is great. i turn it up just enough to nuke some of the noise and hiss from my toneblaster and the suzy q.

i believe it's getting that weird noise because all it has is a threshold control... without the release, it doesn't track the envelope of your guitar as well.
in this one's case, pretty sure it's meant to be used cranked up after some mondo gained dirt pedals, cuz for that, it works great!

but ya may not think ya need a gate on clean stuff, but sometimes it can really make clean things pop.

but not this joyo pos.

strictly for filth.

Have you considered a JSX noise gate incorporated into your pedal or pedals? Doesn't get any simpler than that, 2 diodes and a pot or resistor if you don't want to adjust! The tracking and release are unbeatable! You can also use a dual gang gain/noisegate pot and have it track your gain when you turn it up... It works remarkably well, Just a thought..

Here is one out of one of my preamps but you get the idea... Once you get past the idea that it's not for clipping you will be just fine...

wow, that's it? all there is to it?

wow!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! i may need to try that one out!! thanks bro!

[Jdansti]

^Me too!

[samhay]

Have you considered a JSX noise gate incorporated into your pedal or pedals? Doesn't get any simpler than that, 2 diodes and a pot or resistor if you don't want to adjust! The tracking and release are unbeatable! You can also use a dual gang gain/noisegate pot and have it track your gain when you turn it up... It works remarkably well, Just a thought..

Here is one out of one of my preamps but you get the idea... Once you get past the idea that it's not for clipping you will be just fine...

These diodes are sometimes called 'coring' diodes. They work quite well, but will give a bit of crossover distortion. While this is unlikely to be a problem after some dirt, it may not be the ticket for a clean noise gate - hence why 'proper' noise gate circuits are a lot more complicated. To minimise the distortion, I would try amplifying the signal a bit (you don't have to use the fet as shown, your favourite gain stage should work fine), using Ge diodes and then padding the signal back down.
It is a 5 minute job to try on the breadboard, so I guess you will find out pretty quick whether it is going to do the trick.

Edit - if you are going to try a different gain stage, the only part of the schem you need are the two series diodes and the pot. Everything else can go/be subbed as necessary. You might also need a series resistor before the diodes to get enough current through them.

[moosapotamus]

I built a Gaines noise gate and it is really nice...

That's nice to know, John. I did a couple of layouts for the Gaines with onboard power supplies. I was going to build the +/-15V version, but then I never quite got around to it. So I have not verified the layouts yet, but I guess I might as well share them anyway...

+/-9V version with LT1054 charge pump (click for bigger)





+/-15V version with NMH0515S (Murata) DC-DC converter (click for bigger)





PCB dimensions are 1.8" x 3.0". Should fit into a vertically oriented 1590BB with the four PCB mounted pots across the top and room for jacks on the sides.

Part numbers match the schematic in the PDF that John linked to, above. BOM is in the PDF, too. I replaced the TL075 dual with a pair of TL072.

Both layouts are designed to be powered from a standard 9VDC pedalboard supply or wall wart.

The +/-15V version shows footprints for a LM7805 w/ heatsink and a 1N4004 diode, but I would guess that a 78L05, no heatsink and a 1N4001 would be just fine.

For the Key input, use a normally closed switching jack, so an external toggle is not needed. The switch opens and takes the key input when you insert a plug.

If anyone decides to build one of these before I get to it myself, please let me know.

Thanks
~ Charlie

[Jdansti]

I built a Gaines noise gate and it is really nice...

That's nice to know, John. I did a couple of layouts for the Gaines with onboard power supplies. I was going to build the +/-15V version, but then I never quite got around to it. So I have not verified the layouts yet, but I guess I might as well share them anyway...

+/-9V version with LT1054 charge pump (click for bigger)





+/-15V version with NMH0515S (Murata) DC-DC converter (click for bigger)





PCB dimensions are 1.8" x 3.0". Should fit into a vertically oriented 1590BB with the four PCB mounted pots across the top and room for jacks on the sides.

Part numbers match the schematic in the PDF that John linked to, above. BOM is in the PDF, too. I replaced the TL075 dual with a pair of TL072.

Both layouts are designed to be powered from a standard 9VDC pedalboard supply or wall wart.

The +/-15V version shows footprints for a LM7805 w/ heatsink and a 1N4004 diode, but I would guess that a 78L05, no heatsink and a 1N4001 would be just fine.

For the Key input, use a normally closed switching jack, so an external toggle is not needed. The switch opens and takes the key input when you insert a plug.

If anyone decides to build one of these before I get to it myself, please let me know.

Thanks
~ Charlie

Nice!  I wish I had your layout when I built mine!  I used the layout in the article and put the power supply on a separate board. I put it all in an old CB radio chassis that I gutted.

This was the first music related project I built. Here's a photo showing my cheesy front panel.

[defaced]

Have you considered a JSX noise gate incorporated into your pedal or pedals? Doesn't get any simpler than that, 2 diodes and a pot or resistor if you don't want to adjust! The tracking and release are unbeatable! You can also use a dual gang gain/noisegate pot and have it track your gain when you turn it up... It works remarkably well, Just a thought..

Here is one out of one of my preamps but you get the idea... Once you get past the idea that it's not for clipping you will be just fine...

These diodes are sometimes called 'coring' diodes. They work quite well, but will give a bit of crossover distortion. While this is unlikely to be a problem after some dirt, it may not be the ticket for a clean noise gate - hence why 'proper' noise gate circuits are a lot more complicated. To minimise the distortion, I would try amplifying the signal a bit (you don't have to use the fet as shown, your favourite gain stage should work fine), using Ge diodes and then padding the signal back down.
It is a 5 minute job to try on the breadboard, so I guess you will find out pretty quick whether it is going to do the trick.

Edit - if you are going to try a different gain stage, the only part of the schem you need are the two series diodes and the pot. Everything else can go/be subbed as necessary. You might also need a series resistor before the diodes to get enough current through them.

They change the tone of the circuit too.  I have experimented with these as a band-aid on high gain tube circuits (very large signal voltages) and while background hiss while I wasn't playing was reduced, there were changes in the sound of the circuit as compared to the circuit without them.  Proper design, layout, shielding, etc are much better approaches to solving noise problems than this circuit. 

[moosapotamus]

Nice!  I wish I had your layout when I built mine!  I used the layout in the article and put the power supply on a separate board. I put it all in an old CB radio chassis that I gutted.

This was the first music related project I built. Here's a photo showing my cheesy front panel.

Looks great! Now I'm inspired to finish what I started and build myself one.

Thanks
~ Charlie

[Mark Hammer]

I tend to recommend use of two gates, one at the start, and one nearer the end, of the signal path.  Much of the discontent players express about gates is that they need the gate to do too much for them, and insert it at only one point in the signal path.  This automatically obliges heavy-handed use, and it is the results of such heavy-handed use that they object to and dislike about gates.

Much of the noise at the start of the chain will be hum, and much of the noise at the end of the chain will be acumulated hiss and amplified hum.  Take the hum out at the start, and you solve a big chunk of the noise problem.  If you can then focus on simply trimming back on cumulative hiss near the end of the signal path, you can preserve more of the musical signal.

At the very least, you'll want to detect the instrument envelope at the point where it has the greatest dynamics and provides the most precision in dialing in thresholds for action.  Running a guitar or other instrument through a succession of effects that corrupt its dynamics in one way or another (the compression of overdrives and compressors, the fluctuation of modulated effects) makes for greater difficulty in identifying the "right" threshold for gating/fading.

If I had my ideal noise-control system, it would be something you plug your instrument into ahead of everythng else (buffered output).  The envelope gets detected at that point, to be able to distinguish between intended and extraneous sound with maximum precision under optimum conditions.  The signal then passes through a an envelope-controlled highpass filter that kills the stuff under 150hz or so when you stop playing or play soft.  That signal then goes to all your other effects, which then pass through a final or semifinal stage, controlled by the same envelope/sidechain, that trims the top end in any of a variety of ways - sliding lowpass, downward expander, etc. - to clean up the accumulated hiss.  Because the brunt of any hum that needs to be addressed will be coming in with the raw pickup signal, eliminating it at the outset means that none of your other pedals will be amplifying it and making the challenge even worse.

I've likely spouted all of this many times in other threads here, but it is worth repeating. 

[Morocotopo]

Mark, I have read your reasoning in various posts and I agree with it. But no one ever put your theory into practice I believe.

Someone willing to try it?

...

No one?

...

OK, when I have some free time (read: around 2015) I´ll try that.

Jimi, I made the MXR gate with the tonepad layout. It worked but closed too soon, did copious amount of tweaking and could never get it really optimized. Since I had an original one I searched for the differences. The original one used a single 741 opamp, that was the main difference (and the FET, wich was impossible to get nowadays. Little gray thing). So I remade it with a cheap, old, crusty 741 and it worked much better. Go figure.

[Roger Martin]

Definitely ISP Decimator G-String !
Worth every penny you spend.
Simply the best noise reduction in the planet.
Why ? Coz i've built it one hehehe......