UMI Buzz Tone

[Henry89789]

Pink Jimi:

Thanks for the reply. Yes I meant the UMI buzztone and expander from the corrected schematic by Lucifer's trip that you posted with your vero on May 22 at 08:14:45. I see that the parts that you say are not on the schematic are on the vero board layout. So if I build that vero board buzz tone exactly the way you have it on your vero layout it will work and produce this sound you describe:   "very creamy with long sustain depending on how ya set it."  Your description (very creamy with long sustain) is the way I describe the tones Duane Allman gets in a few places  on the Live At Fillmore East version of In Memory of Elizabeth Reed. That is the tone I have been looking for. 

[pinkjimiphoton]

uploading video now...
that said tho, if you want skydog's tone, you want a fuzzface. use it to push an amp on the edge of breakup hard, and use the knobs on your guitar.

no other pedal is gonna get you that.

to me, this is more like a fuzzier big muff..definitely a "buzztone", but that' a good thing in this case i think.

but for what you're describing, yah, gibson guitar into a fuzzface with a dead battery, neck pickup, volume and tone on the guitar rolled down some into a clean (by modern standards) marshall-ish amp. bingo.

be back with the vid shortly... big muff variant (hot rodded behringer vd1) and the umi.

[LucifersTrip]

hey...

don't know what to tell ya...the video above is a Fuzz Rite and the UMI is a Fuzz Rite. It's the sound of 60's biker flicks.

The UMI I built sounds almost identical to the original UMI I have. I detailed above the only differences transistor choices will make. The errored version will remove the clean from the mix, make it more compressed and ruin the buzz pot sweep.

If you're getting more of a Big Muff like tone with a Fuzz Rite, that's cool, too. I don't know if it's because you're pumping it into an already distorted amp...but in the end, it's whatever you like that counts.

When you do the vid, make sure you show the buzz full counter clockwise when the tone is mainly the "clean" part of the signal, and then show the fuzz slowly being mixed in. That's one of the things that makes a Fuzz Rite unique.

[pinkjimiphoton]

hopefully my silly stoned ass will remember to have done that when i shot the video, dewwwwwwwwwwwwwd...



ahh, vicodin. don't make blown discs better.

anyways...here's my lame humble offering. thanks for the education, i didn't realize this was a fuzzrite.

the vd1 and the umi back and forth... i mean i hear a difference, but i seem to hear similar flavors... at least to me.

maybe it was them 4 million 60's biker flicks i watched while trippin'   

and hey! mark hammer! is this like your epiphone?

[Henry89789]

Hey Pink Jimi:

Thanks for the analysis of Skydog's tone. You summarized it really well. I have been told that I can have all the equipment he had and still not get the tone because as they said a large part of what makes up tone comes from the brain through the fingers. But I enjoy the quest that our mutual friend, Smokin' Herb,  and I are on regarding that elusive Skydog tone .....

I really like the sound of that Buzztone and the sustain it gets at low volume. I have already started on it and have the traces cut and the components on the board. But I'd like to be sure I understand everything. Do the transistors need to be biased and if so where should the trim pot or pots go? Also, the SPDT switch switches between the volume expander and the buzz, right?  Then I can use a typical PNP wiring scheme to wire up the 3pdt bypass switch, the LED, the jacks, the battery clip, and the power supply jack, right?    Thanks for the help.

[LucifersTrip]

Do the transistors need to be biased and if so where should the trim pot or pots go?

Earlier in the thread, I provided voltages of the original and detailed descriptions of what the effect would have at different leakages & voltages.  You can trim Q1 with the 4.7K but Q2 would be a bit tougher without adding a resistor. I'd just pick a couple transistors until you like the sound. Try different leakages, especially in Q2.

Also, the SPDT switch switches between the volume expander and the buzz, right?

yes, so for better or worse, there no "true bypass" or unaffected tone!

Then I can use a typical PNP wiring scheme to wire up the 3pdt bypass switch, the LED, the jacks, the battery clip, and the power supply jack, right? 

yes

[LucifersTrip]

Hey Jimi,

Thanx for posting the vid. I guess I can hear some similarities when the Muff is turned way to the treble side.

I tried to find a youtube vid that most closely resembles what the UMI can do. It's tough, because many of the vids are blues/rock and the UMI is a garage fuzz.

On a quick search, this seems to be the closest, but the UMI is a bit fatter (note the UMI's 2 X .15uF's vs. the Fuzz Rite's 2 x .05uF's.The .002's are the same)

http://eu11.stripper.jp/pulcino/blog/images/fuzzrite.gif

listen especially at 1:25. you can really hear the blend...the distorted "clean" up front with "buzz" down low.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3_u6KAGRfPw

[pinkjimiphoton]

guys, i gotta go get an epidural to try and chill down some very bad nerves, i will respond to this later...
peace

[pinkjimiphoton]

Hey Pink Jimi:

Thanks for the analysis of Skydog's tone. You summarized it really well. I have been told that I can have all the equipment he had and still not get the tone because as they said a large part of what makes up tone comes from the brain through the fingers. But I enjoy the quest that our mutual friend, Smokin' Herb,  and I are on regarding that elusive Skydog tone .....

I LIKE THAT BAND. good to be back with them, and playing some rock n roll. Smokin' Herb... and now we've been decriminalized!

seriously, a germanium or hybrid fuzzface, and i'd put a bias control where you can tweak it from outside to starve the tranny till it sounds right.
the key is to have the fuzzface pushing the amp hard enough where it sounds like it's off with the guitar rolled down some. when you want scream/oooooh, hit the neck pickup and juice it some. the more ya mess with it, the easier it will be to get the sound... or something close enough to make you smile...happen.

I really like the sound of that Buzztone and the sustain it gets at low volume.

you really gotta try it driving an overdrive, or with an overdrive driving it. can get some really screaming phat treble tones that way or nice hendrixian meltied brown mud.

your guitar knobs will be your friends on a strat, on a gibson there's a bit less range imho, but it's easier to get that creamy scream.

I have already started on it and have the traces cut and the components on the board. But I'd like to be sure I understand everything. Do the transistors need to be biased and if so where should the trim pot or pots go?

i would socket the transitors, and don't be prejudicial about any. try fets, mosfets, ge, silicon, all kinds of gain ranges. every transistor i plugged into mine sounded different. some sound more like that 60's acid trip shit, some almost a metallic octave up. seriously... don't worry about biasing the transistors. just plug in different ones til ya feel a little wiggle "down there"

Also, the SPDT switch switches between the volume expander and the buzz, right? 

yes, by nature, this thing is ALWAYS on... either as volume expander or buzz. i true bypassed mine. i have it set to just an on off led, but i may redo it so the led is always on with different colors for expansion or buzz. pretty lazy tho, so i dunno... that will just add noise. led's make a lot of noise sometimes.
so anyways, use whichever method you prefer. it's fairly transparent, but does change the tone a little. that's why i went TB.



[/quote]
Then I can use a typical PNP wiring scheme to wire up the 3pdt bypass switch, the LED, the jacks, the battery clip, and the power supply jack, right?    Thanks for the help.
[/quote]

yep, you bet

[pinkjimiphoton]

Hey Jimi,

Thanx for posting the vid. I guess I can hear some similarities when the Muff is turned way to the treble side.

I tried to find a youtube vid that most closely resembles what the UMI can do. It's tough, because many of the vids are blues/rock and the UMI is a garage fuzz.

On a quick search, this seems to be the closest, but the UMI is a bit fatter (note the UMI's 2 X .15uF's vs. the Fuzz Rite's 2 x .05uF's.The .002's are the same)

http://eu11.stripper.jp/pulcino/blog/images/fuzzrite.gif

listen especially at 1:25. you can really hear the blend...the distorted "clean" up front with "buzz" down low.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3_u6KAGRfPw

i bet ya that's why the umi has that creamier phatter tone, like a trebly big muff. nice link, that sounded sweet!!!!!!!!!

[LucifersTrip]

I only had 1 minute and a camera...and it's 5am.

[pinkjimiphoton]

yah, sounds a lot like mine does at some settings. nice.

damn, dave, you REALLY  capture that 60's acid trip sound and vibe. nice clip, thanks!!

[Henry89789]

... don't make blown discs better...

Yeah, but it helps you forget them for awhile, I hope.

maybe it was them 4 million 60's biker flicks i watched while trippin'   

How could you watch violent stuff like that trippin'? One of these new tv stations just showed a few of these. I could only sit through Devil's Angels because it has John (Staccato) Cassavetes; and Billy Jack; Looking at them now they seem more comical than violent, especially Jeremy Slate trying to act tough wearing those silly white glasses, and the Honda 305 with the saddlebags, and .....

Anyway, Lucifer and Pink Jimi: Thanks for the help with the details for the UMI. "Creamier, phatter tone ..." and "60s acid trip sound ..." Yeah! I want to hear that. I'm going to try to finish it tonight.

[pinkjimiphoton]

 

hope ya likes it henry!!!

[Roger Martin]

This fuzz tone reminds me of I Can't Get No Satisfaction - Rolling Stones or early songs by Black Sabbath type of guitar tone.

[LucifersTrip]

How could you watch violent stuff like that trippin'?

because of the fuzz, of course...That's how I first got into fuzz...and really, they're just stream-of-consciousness psychedelic road trip movies with some really good party scenes. These have a couple of the better soundtracks:

[Henry89789]

Looks like I'm not going to finish this tonight. This is where I am at now:



This is my first vero but it seems to allow one to organize the components to make the board a lot smaller than a perfboard layout. This is only 2X1 inches.

I also think I found a mistake on the volume pot diagram posted above, even though it is correct on the vero board diagram (do you guys do this to goof with the heads of the novices? It sure got me to carefully compare the schematic with the diagram). Should the volume pot be wired as follows:

Volume pot lug 1 to Ground at J17 (instead of F17)

Volume pot lug 2 to 3pdt lug 9

Volume pot lug 3  to F 17  (instead of  Ground)

Should the other wiring be as follows:

Positive leg of LED to  3pdt  lug 3

Input jack tip to 3pdt lug 5

Audio in (F1)  to 3pdt  lug 6

output jack tip to 3pdt  lug 8

output jack sleeve to ground somewhere on the "J"    row

-9v (A1)  to  DC power jack

Ground on "E" or "J" row  to 3pdt  lug 2

H-J 1 to the SPDT

If you guys could review the connections I listed above I'd sure appreciate it. Thanks.

[Henry89789]

How could you watch violent stuff like that trippin'?

because of the fuzz, of course...

Yeah, I suppose fuzz does have some inherent anti-bummer properties. The only "biker flick" (some may not consider it a "biker flick," but I think it took the genre to the level of art) I ever saw tripping (and I mean tripping!) was Easy Rider. Big mistake. Remember that was the first of a series of movies during that period with a shocking and violent surprise ending; eg.: Electra Glide In Blue; Vanishing Point.  Unfortunately I wasn't aware of the protective property of Fuzz at that time. 

[Henry89789]

I finished it! It worked the first time. Sounds good. I have to try different transistors.  These are AC 125s. The schematic and the perfboard layout are definitely verified. The wiring connections I posted also work. The buzz and contour pots and the buzz/expander switch seem to have minimal effect. Almost none. But the volume pot on the pedal certainly does. And so does the volume pot  on the guitar. Like a fuzz face.  You roll it all the way and it does seem to expand but it does it on regardless of where the switch is. Not a lot of buzz with these transistors but good sustain.  Thanks for the help building it.

[LucifersTrip]

I finished it! It worked the first time. Sounds good. I have to try different transistors.

yes, definitely try at least one Q2 that puts the collector below 1V, so you have an idea of what the original sounds like through your amp

The schematic and the perfboard layout are definitely verified. The wiring connections I posted also work. The buzz and contour pots and the buzz/expander switch seem to have minimal effect. Almost none.

I would re-check or re-think your pot connections. No matter what transistors you choose (as long as they're working), you will have a big effect when buzz and contour are changed. also, remember, what I wrote above. The contour will have little effect when the buzz is full counterclockwise (clean part of the blend)


edit:
"buzz/expander switch seem to have minimal effect"

this is actually the first thing to check. if it's not going from "expander" to "buzz" with a flip of that switch, the buzz & contour will have zero effect. Only the volume has any effect when the "expander" is on.  Check the direction of the diode and you're connections for that switch.....and, of course, voltages will definitely help. Q2 voltages will be totally different when "buzz" is switched on.