Kemet film caps as good as any?

[lowvolt]

I used to use Panasonic film caps anytime a call for smaller film caps was put forth.  Well, it seems Panasonic isn't offering some of my "usual suspects" any longer so I've been getting "others" from Mouser et al for a while.  I have also rec'd a few of these "Topmay" caps from Small Bear that come in yellow square packages, those seemed to be ~well enough~ (I guess). 

However the last bunch of .001uf film caps I got were these square blue Kemet caps.

0.001uf -- 100v -- 5%

I'm only using them in simple single opamp type overdrive circuits.

Are these Kemets as good as any?  (Service life, performance, tone?)  My ears are a bit hashed from time to time due to meds I take.  So sometimes I wouldn't be able to tell if there's a minute but noticable difference for the few pedals I make for sale on the web (constant ringing sometimes).  That's why I asked about the ~tone~ thing.

Thanks.

[lowvolt]

Not worth worrying over?

[Jdansti]

In my opinion, it's not worth worrying over.

My guess is that if you did a blind taste test of poly/film caps of several different manufacturers you wouldn't be able to taste (hear) the difference between them with all else being equal.   

I would purchase the cheapest poly/film caps that are the right physical size for my build.  Of course as the capacitance values get below a certain point, you will have to use ceramics.

[lowvolt]

In my opinion, it's not worth worrying over.

My guess is that if you did a blind taste test of poly/film caps of several different manufacturers you wouldn't be able to taste (hear) the difference between them with all else being equal.   

I would purchase the cheapest poly/film caps that are the right physical size for my build.  Of course as the capacitance values get below a certain point, you will have to use ceramics.

I more or less figured that was the case.  I just wanted to make sure it wasn't one of those "DON'T USE THOSE, THEY'RE TOTAL CRAP!" situations before I bought more of them.

I suppose as far as longevity goes they're all about the same then?

[Jdansti]

My guess is that you wouldn't see much difference in the lifetimes of film caps since the various manufacturers use similar potting materials and the dialectric materials are only manufactured at a few places in the world. You might see differences if you operate the caps near the limits of their specs, i.e., voltage, current, temperature, humidity, etc., but this shouldn't be an issue for stompbox use.

Here's some info from Kemet on their film caps:

http://www.kemet.com/kemet/web/homepage/kechome.nsf/weben/CF9A77B25D8A4E0F852576AE007F3F0B/$file/F9000_GenInfo_DCFilm.pdf

[lowvolt]

My guess is that you wouldn't see much difference in the lifetimes of film caps since the various manufacturers use similar potting materials and the dialectric materials are only manufactured at a few places in the world. You might see differences if you operate the caps near the limits of their specs, i.e., voltage, current, temperature, humidity, etc., but this shouldn't be an issue for stompbox use.

Here's some info from Kemet on their film caps:

http://www.kemet.com/kemet/web/homepage/kechome.nsf/weben/CF9A77B25D8A4E0F852576AE007F3F0B/$file/F9000_GenInfo_DCFilm.pdf

Thanks truckloads!! 

[R.G.]

I more or less figured that was the case.  I just wanted to make sure it wasn't one of those "DON'T USE THOSE, THEY'RE TOTAL CRAP!" situations before I bought more of them.

This is the internet. I'm pretty sure there is a cluster of True Believers of something or other that will shout at you that they're total crap, based on their electron phase alignment with the aetheric flux or some such.

Pretty much any major manufacturer of components can't make total crap and get away with it. They'd be out of business. Kemet is a long respected maker.

[wavley]

What I can tell you is that here at the observatory we used surface mount .1uF panasonic film caps for years in amps until they changed the cartridge and refrigerator, in doing so they found the resonant frequency of the caps and the excited caps would vibrate and break the bond wires going to them.  We started replacing them with Kemet caps and everything is fine with the added benefit of the fact that they stay closer to their stated values when cooled to 14 Kelvin so they actually work much better for decoupling.

Moral of the story is, if they work in cryogenic amps up to 18 GHz, they're probably good enough for stomp boxes.

[lowvolt]

What I can tell you is that here at the observatory we used surface mount .1uF panasonic film caps for years in amps until they changed the cartridge and refrigerator, in doing so they found the resonant frequency of the caps and the excited caps would vibrate and break the bond wires going to them.  We started replacing them with Kemet caps and everything is fine with the added benefit of the fact that they stay closer to their stated values when cooled to 14 Kelvin so they actually work much better for decoupling.

Moral of the story is, if they work in cryogenic amps up to 18 GHz, they're probably good enough for stomp boxes.

(In my best Keannu Reaves impression) ... Hmmm ... I dunno man, I'm a pretty hot-ass player ... you sure that they'll be ok for my stompbox?  I've been known to make a few panties drop with my asskicking riffage .. you sure they'll deal with all that rockage?  (wink wink, sarcastic nudge, ha-ha and all of that).

Yea, I'd say that if they work in near zero situations I suppose you're right about them being able to deal with a few volts at less than 10khz at human-life supporting temps.  Thanks for the great confidence building story.

[lowvolt]

I more or less figured that was the case.  I just wanted to make sure it wasn't one of those "DON'T USE THOSE, THEY'RE TOTAL CRAP!" situations before I bought more of them.

This is the internet. I'm pretty sure there is a cluster of True Believers of something or other that will shout at you that they're total crap, based on their electron phase alignment with the aetheric flux or some such.

Pretty much any major manufacturer of components can't make total crap and get away with it. They'd be out of business. Kemet is a long respected maker.

Hmmm ... yea, and Bernie Madoff can't be a crook either, I mean if he were then he wouldn't be so trusted by so many with their hard earned nesteggs.  Just sayin' that big companies get away with crappy products all the time, reputation can be worthy, and it can be unworthy.  GM made many crappy cars many times and got away with it, there's any number of cases that could be cited of that same type of thing involving many types of products.  I don't automatically trust brand names without at least asking around a bit (which is why I started this thread anyhow).  I mean, you kindof even impeached yourself with your first remark about "this being the internet.... (and so on)" (in other words, having pointed out what you pointed out, what makes your comment about Kemet being trustworthy hold any more water than my concern about perhaps buying bad components from a large company?  See how that kinda worked a little wierd on ya?).  Haahaa.    I'm just pointing out the paradox is all, nothing personal, ok?

I understand your point though, and it's well taken.  Thanks for your advice.  I certainly appreciate you taking the time to make me think about the situation a little bit.  I feel better about them now.    Thanks again.

[R.G.]

 I mean, you kindof even impeached yourself with your first remark about "this being the internet.... (and so on)" (in other words, having pointed out what you pointed out, what makes your comment about Kemet being trustworthy hold any more water than my concern about perhaps buying bad components from a large company?  See how that kinda worked a little wierd on ya?).  Haahaa.    I'm just pointing out the paradox is all, nothing personal, ok?

Of course, if you believe the impeachment, why ask on the internet? See how that kinda worked a little weird on ya?.  Nothing personal, ok?

[lowvolt]

I mean, you kindof even impeached yourself with your first remark about "this being the internet.... (and so on)" (in other words, having pointed out what you pointed out, what makes your comment about Kemet being trustworthy hold any more water than my concern about perhaps buying bad components from a large company?  See how that kinda worked a little wierd on ya?).  Haahaa.    I'm just pointing out the paradox is all, nothing personal, ok?

Of course, if you believe the impeachment, why ask on the internet? See how that kinda worked a little weird on ya?.  Nothing personal, ok?

Oh c'mon now.  Be nice, it won't even hurt ... I promise.   Seriously, you didn't see the humor in what I pointed out?  You gotta admit the door was wide open! 

As for asking "the internet" .... nothing untruthful may be posted on the web ... everybody knows that.  

Kidding aside, I gotta start somewhere, right?

[Jdansti]

(In my best Keannu Reaves impression) ... Hmmm ... I dunno man, I'm a pretty hot-ass player ... you sure that they'll be ok for my stompbox?  I've been known to make a few panties drop with my asskicking riffage .. you sure they'll deal with all that rockage?  (wink wink, sarcastic nudge, ha-ha and all of that).

Yea, I'd say that if they work in near zero situations I suppose you're right about them being able to deal with a few volts at less than 10khz at human-life supporting temps.  Thanks for the great confidence building story.

Not to brag, but I've made quite a few ladies very frigid myself.

[wavley]

(In my best Keannu Reaves impression) ... Hmmm ... I dunno man, I'm a pretty hot-ass player ... you sure that they'll be ok for my stompbox?  I've been known to make a few panties drop with my asskicking riffage .. you sure they'll deal with all that rockage?  (wink wink, sarcastic nudge, ha-ha and all of that).

Yea, I'd say that if they work in near zero situations I suppose you're right about them being able to deal with a few volts at less than 10khz at human-life supporting temps.  Thanks for the great confidence building story.

Not to brag, but I've made quite a few ladies very frigid myself.

Why do you think I have so many things with knobs to occupy my time?

[Jdansti]

(In my best Keannu Reaves impression) ... Hmmm ... I dunno man, I'm a pretty hot-ass player ... you sure that they'll be ok for my stompbox?  I've been known to make a few panties drop with my asskicking riffage .. you sure they'll deal with all that rockage?  (wink wink, sarcastic nudge, ha-ha and all of that).

Yea, I'd say that if they work in near zero situations I suppose you're right about them being able to deal with a few volts at less than 10khz at human-life supporting temps.  Thanks for the great confidence building story.

Not to brag, but I've made quite a few ladies very frigid myself.

Why do you think I have so many things with knobs to occupy my time?

[UKToecutter]

I've always used Kemet Box Poly's in my builds.  To be honest, I wouldnt be able to tell the difference between a polystyrene, PVC, nylon or whatever from an audible perspective, but.....
They look great, they stand up straight, I can't recall a single failure and they're small and neat
+1 for Kemet

[lowvolt]

I've always used Kemet Box Poly's in my builds.  To be honest, I wouldnt be able to tell the difference between a polystyrene, PVC, nylon or whatever from an audible perspective, but.....
They look great, they stand up straight, I can't recall a single failure and they're small and neat
+1 for Kemet

Ok, great.  Well, so far so good.  I just needed a few first hand thumbs ups from a forum of users that I trust before I began to replace low inventory with bulk amounts of Kemets.  It's a brand I am unfamiliar with and I thought it best to ask around a bit before buying like a thousand of them or something. 

Thanks to everyone that offered constructive replies. 

[duck_arse]

... and now some unconstructive ones.

I've been trying to flog some mustard caps on eebay, so far without sucsess. maybe it's my spellink. anyway, looking at other postings, it seems "cryogenic treatment" is the way to go. I looked at "a" site, and it started talking about wax and teflon and slow temperture drops etc. my eyes glazed over.

that's when I saw I only needed to "match" my caps before posting them, and I could ask for $40 EACH CAP.

so maybe you could chuck your kemets into liquid nitrogen.

[Kesh]

I used to use Panasonic film caps anytime a call for smaller film caps was put forth.  Well, it seems Panasonic isn't offering some of my "usual suspects" any longer so I've been getting "others" from Mouser et al for a while.  I have also rec'd a few of these "Topmay" caps from Small Bear that come in yellow square packages, those seemed to be ~well enough~ (I guess). 

However the last bunch of .001uf film caps I got were these square blue Kemet caps.

0.001uf -- 100v -- 5%

I'm only using them in simple single opamp type overdrive circuits.

Are these Kemets as good as any?  (Service life, performance, tone?)  My ears are a bit hashed from time to time due to meds I take.  So sometimes I wouldn't be able to tell if there's a minute but noticable difference for the few pedals I make for sale on the web (constant ringing sometimes).  That's why I asked about the ~tone~ thing.

Thanks.

The barely perceptible sound differences between different types of film caps may have a place in the ultra low distortion, hi spec hi-fi world, but are irrelevant if you are making overdrives, as distortion is what you are doing and the caps contribution will be vanishingly small in comparison.

If you are using them for decoupling super duper high performance op amps the differences may just matter more, in terms of keeping the op amp stable, but why would anyone use such op amps for pedals?

[lowvolt]

I used to use Panasonic film caps anytime a call for smaller film caps was put forth.  Well, it seems Panasonic isn't offering some of my "usual suspects" any longer so I've been getting "others" from Mouser et al for a while.  I have also rec'd a few of these "Topmay" caps from Small Bear that come in yellow square packages, those seemed to be ~well enough~ (I guess). 

However the last bunch of .001uf film caps I got were these square blue Kemet caps.

0.001uf -- 100v -- 5%

I'm only using them in simple single opamp type overdrive circuits.

Are these Kemets as good as any?  (Service life, performance, tone?)  My ears are a bit hashed from time to time due to meds I take.  So sometimes I wouldn't be able to tell if there's a minute but noticable difference for the few pedals I make for sale on the web (constant ringing sometimes).  That's why I asked about the ~tone~ thing.

Thanks.

The barely perceptible sound differences between different types of film caps may have a place in the ultra low distortion, hi spec hi-fi world, but are irrelevant if you are making overdrives, as distortion is what you are doing and the caps contribution will be vanishingly small in comparison.

If you are using them for decoupling super duper high performance op amps the differences may just matter more, in terms of keeping the op amp stable, but why would anyone use such op amps for pedals?

Well, I would be thinking that way if I defined an overdrive pedal as a distortion pedal, but I don't.  It's an overdrive circuit, meaning it makes the signal have a greater output level to overdrive whatever it hits next.  So the idea that the tone be kept as genuine to the input tone is important.  Sure, it can be pushed into distortion but that isn't it's primary role.  And like you said, once into distortion keeping the tone genuine isn't as important, as long as it doesn't produce a far reaching change (like a severe scoop or hump).  Those types of distortion pedals are for different purposes.  But what I'm doing with this particular unit is more of an overdrive unit, with the ability to distort if desired.  So tonal continuity is sortof important to me in this particular instance.

However, it seems from what has been said that I'll be well within the tolerance levels of coloration so I'm fairly confident I'll be satisfied with their performance.  Longevity also seems to be well addressed.  I have a few, I'll try them out, but from the comments here so far I think there will be nothing to worry about.  As I said previously I just wanted to make sure that these weren't known as lousy components.  It never hurts to check the reputation of a given component with those that have more experience with them than I do .... pragmatic philosophies about the trustworthyness of "the internet fanboys' testimonies" aside.  I mean, if you cannot trust the experiences of many of the members here, then who CAN you trust?  (And just to deflate any arguments to the contrary, this is not the only membership that I consulted on this issue.  I crosschecked with two other forums whos memberships I also have faith in).  So far, everything is very consistant.

Thanks again for all the help folks!