Tubescreamer, or not Tubescreamer... that is my question

[Jopn]

Hey, my name's John, and I'm a n00b.

I've got a couple pedals under my belt in the last few weeks, and I'm starting to ask myself one of those deep philosophical questions:  Do I build a tubescreamer?

I've got an OD built up already and love it, the JHS Morning Glory, but I think I could probably use a second OD for variety.

I guess my nature is to shy away from the beaten path and avoid "the standards", but I think as a DIY pedal builder there's a lot of benefit in being very familiar with what the original tubescreamer sounds like and how it acts.  It must be the most referenced pedal in the boutique world when it comes to tone descriptions.  Right now if I'm looking at potentially building a pedal and it mentions that it has the same mid-range boost as a tubescreamer, I know theoretically what that means but I can't hear it in my head.

But I'm worried I won't be inspired enough to build it.  If I put it together and it doesn't work, it may go into my "troubleshooting pile" where I may or may not find an evening where I feel like prodding it with a multimeter.  While on the pragmatic side, it makes sense for me to put one together, I'm not sure I can feel like "woohoo!!!  I'm building a.... wait for it... tubescreamer!!!11!.

Maybe I should build something tubescreamer-ish... Something with more tone-geeky coolness to give my inner hipster the opportunity to say: it's a clone of another pedal, but you've probably never heard of it...

What say you?  Should I do my do diligence I pop out am 808 or a ts9 or ts10?  Should I build boutique pedal x based on the tubescreamer?  Or should I keep my sense of creative independence intact and avoid the mainstream?

[aron]

> Maybe I should build something tubescreamer-ish... Something with more tone-geeky coolness to give my inner hipster the opportunity to say: it's a clone of another pedal, but you've probably never heard of it...

There are so many pedals that are tube screamer offshoots. Build it and mod it.

http://www.geofex.com/Article_Folders/TStech/tsxfram.htm

[Jopn]

There are so many pedals that are tube screamer offshoots. Build it and mod it.

I guess that's another part of my problem, I don't feel inspired to mod a tubescreamer circuit myself because it's been done to death.  I've got a few things on breadboard right now that are a little obscure to start with, and I'm pushing them further into obscurity with my own style of ham-handed mods.

[pakrat]

Why not try the Super Tube Screamer, or the Blue Note Overdrive? I love building different Overdrives because they sound great and I rarely need to debug them, and that's always a good thing!

[Jopn]

Hmmm, that Blue Note sure does sound purdy...

I think we may have a winner here.  Any other suggestions from the audience?

[samhay]

Why not invest in a breadboard, build the Tubescreamer on this and see whether you like it or not. If so, build it, if not, tweak and/or move on...

[R O Tiree]

I think that knowing what a stock TS sounds like gives you a benchmark for judging whether the various mods improve it or not and playing with it on breadboard to try out some mods will also reinforce the theory of what you read about them. Think of it as a learning investment?

At the risk of opening a can of worms that has been opened a great many times, people fall more or less into two fairly entrenched camps when it comes to this circuit. There are those who love it and those who wouldn't touch one with a sh!tty stick. Of those who love them, there are sub-sets who think that this, that or the other one are the "right" one and all others are merely hollow copies. It's not helped by some of the hype you read on various "boutique" sellers' sites, maintaining that only they are the keepers of the Holy Grail of Tone... Ultimately, however, there is only one person in the whole world who can tell you whether you like it or not, and that is you. There are loads of schematics on the 'net so, as samhay says, pick one, build it on breadboard, or provide sockets on a PCB, and try out some versions and mods.

[Kesh]

stop being so wishy washy and build something

[midwayfair]

stop being so wishy washy and build something

OP: At least breadboard it, and do read the GeoFx article for sure. But I'll tell you one thing, there's nothing wrong with the mass produced tube screamers that a higher price tag couldn't fix.

I couldn't bring myself to actually solder up the PCB I have, much less box it up, but I've made a few of the derivatives and I've actually breadboarded the stock circuit just to verify that my plastic Ibanez that I got for $20 was close enough to compare with something else. I'd say build what gets you excited, not just the stuff that you have a vague sense of being "expected" to build.

[Jopn]

stop being so wishy washy and build something

Oh don't worry, I'm still building other things while I plan out my future builds.  Last night I spent the evening soldering up a Big Muff Creamy Dreamer.

[Jopn]

Thanks for the feedback guys!

I think I'm going to build the blue note and breadboard the tubescreamer.  It'd probably be a good idea to breadboard a few classic pedals on some of those cheap breadboards tayda sells, and store them on the breadboard so I can pull them out when ever I need them for tonal reference.  Or maybe the breadboarded version will excite me enough to build it or mod it.

Cheers,

John

[pappasmurfsharem]

Son of Clay Jones. (Clay Jones Overdrive - CJOD without the input/output buffers)

http://tagboardeffects.blogspot.com/2012/12/son-of-clay-jones-overdrive.html

Creamy goodness.

[Jopn]

Son of Clay Jones. (Clay Jones Overdrive - CJOD without the input/output buffers)

http://tagboardeffects.blogspot.com/2012/12/son-of-clay-jones-overdrive.html

Creamy goodness.

I'm curious if the OPA2134 is worth the price.  Into the Tayda wishlist it goes...

[Mark Hammer]

If you make yourself a PCB or other fixed layout for a TS, do yourself a favour and provide sockets for several components so you can dicker around with the values.

For example, the 4k7 resistor and .047uf cap to ground are each worthy of playing with, as is the 51pf feedback cap, and the .22uf cap in the tone circuit, and the 1k feedback resistor in the tone stage.  And of course, the diodes in the feedback path of the clipping stage.

[Ice-9]

Son of Clay Jones. (Clay Jones Overdrive - CJOD without the input/output buffers)

http://tagboardeffects.blogspot.com/2012/12/son-of-clay-jones-overdrive.html

Creamy goodness.

I'm curious if the OPA2134 is worth the price.  Into the Tayda wishlist it goes...

Well there only the price of a beer, not going to break the bank are they, give it a go

[pappasmurfsharem]

Son of Clay Jones. (Clay Jones Overdrive - CJOD without the input/output buffers)

http://tagboardeffects.blogspot.com/2012/12/son-of-clay-jones-overdrive.html

Creamy goodness.

I'm curious if the OPA2134 is worth the price.  Into the Tayda wishlist it goes...

never tried other OAs loved the sound from the get go, may not make a difference.

I also put a DPDT - ON ON ON switch with the two red LEDs in the middle two 4148 in the up position 1n4001 in the down for 1N4001 and 1 Red LED combo.

The Stock LEDS sound best though not a huge diffence just varying volume cuts. Using the LEDS the pedal can be used as a boost too.

[aron]

Build a stock tube screamer and mod it. That's what most people have done.  Why? Because it's possible to make it sound GREAT and totally different.

[roseblood11]

  Been there, done that...

[Jopn]

I'm curious if the OPA2134 is worth the price.  Into the Tayda wishlist it goes...

Well there only the price of a beer, not going to break the bank are they, give it a go

Ok, you say that like it's no big deal, but I read it like this: "For every one you buy, you'd have to give up a beer." which is a HORRIBLE sales pitch.

[gritz]

Build a stock tube screamer and mod it. That's what most people have done.  Why? Because it's possible to make it sound GREAT and totally different.

This. Best advice ever. You will doubtless find all kind of claims all over the web regarding this - or - that modification and many of them will reference a particular brand of funny coloured capacitor, vintage Russian diodes or esoteric, hard to find and expensive opamps. That's all fine and dandy, but you really need a benchmark first - a starting point - and that is the stock Tubescreamer. Aron provided a link to R.G. Keen's article "The Technology of the Tube Screamer" and that is an excellent starting point, analysing what each bit does in a scientific but not overly technical manner as well as documenting the differences between the various models, so you can try them all yourself.

http://www.geofex.com/Article_Folders/TStech/tsxfram.htm

R.G. is a regular here too.

The breadboard thing is defo the way to go and I'd suggest scribbling down a few notes too. How does it sound? How do I want it to sound? That sort of thing. The human brain can play tricks - modifications can make things sound different simply because we expect a difference. Really. Making a few recordings (even fairly basic recordings with a cameraphone) can help. The Tubescreamer is not a huge circuit, so I'd suggest keeping a stockish one on breadboard or vero so that you can do direct A/B comparisons with a modified version. Differences will jump out and you'll be able to say that "making capacitor X smaller has this effect", rather than just stumbling about in the dark. Even if you end up deciding that the TS isn't what you're looking for it's still an ideal circuit for experimentation because it's not too complicated, isn't chock full of expensive / hard to find parts and it has buffer transistors at the input and output, so it doesn't care too much what it's connected to. It's an excellent test bed for learning how boosting / cutting different frequencies changes how a distortion behaves in a completely repeatable manner. Want more / less flab / fizz? Dial it in with changes in capacitor / resistor values that obey a simple (and useful) equation. Once you get a handle on that then you can maybe start experimenting with different diodes and asymmetric clipping. Maybe then try a few different opamps and see for yourself what makes a difference (and what doesn't...)

I certainly wouldn't recommend jumping in at the deep end with expensive opamps and "mojo" components before getting a handle on what the basic circuit does though.

I hope I'm not making it all sound a bit dull, because being methodical makes those happy accidents happen a lot more often! Gary Player once said "The more I practice, the luckier I get".