With the tools I have available how should I etch my first board?

[pappasmurfsharem]

I have some large sheets of phenolic copper clad. <--- Not presensitized

I have an inkjet printer.

I plan to get a gallon of muriatic from the hardware store as it's cheap.
http://www.homedepot.com/p/Smart-2x1-Gallon-Muriatic-Acid-2118-HD/100119310#.UfCb1VRBoxA

Since I don't have sensitized board I assume the INKJET isn't of much use for me?

What is my best option?

Do I put the boards I want on a single page saved a flashdrive mirrored and take them up to a kinko's to get it lasered onto some photo paper?

I've heard muriatic and HCL don't differ much and I believe i've read that it works for PCB etching with a little Hydrogen Peroxide.

Is there any real way to use an inkjet without modding it to print directly on the boards or using UV lights and presensitized boards??

[Mustachio]

Hey Pappa , Inkjet will only be good for photo process to make a mask for developing and even then you need to double them up some times. It works fine though so you would need some type of positive or negitive photoresist which isn't as easy to come by, gotta order from China or EU might find it in the US but its slim pick'ns. So yeah at the moment injet isnt gonna help much... yet.... Also people that modify an inkjet to print direct to the copper usually use some type of emulsion think of it like gel goop medium for the ink to stick onto a lil better.

I've never taken anything to a print shop to have done but threads I've read people say its hard to get them to turn the toner saver option off. A smaller print shop might do it for ya, I guess it depends on what they offer for price/quality . Some of the pcb images are already mirrored so double check before you print em off if your not sure. Usually ill look for an IC or something that is polar and will double check if it would be correct when printed applied etc.

I haven't used the self mixed etching with muriatic acid but theres a buncha people and threads here of people discussing their mix ratios and what works best for them. I think the muriatic I had said the % by vol on the side and that would need to be equated depending on what you got. I have been using the pre mixed etch solution from radio shack and the pre mix from mg chemicals. Have lasted me a while reusing the old stuff too!

Ok so, wanna make a board tonight ?!?!?! I think I seen some one doing this for a contest and thought it was really neat, so I tried it . Print out the pcb image on your inkjet on normal paper tape it to the pcb then drill out all the holes. Now remove the paper or and or print out another one and lay it above the pcb and use a sharpie or pcb marker etc to connect the dots. I just go by eye and follow one hole to the next double checking the lines. I usually will start at one hole and put a dot of ink in it and the next and dot it then use a straight edge to draw my line. Did a few free hand too that turned out real nice. You can also use say non tacky masking tape like the blue stuff stick it to your shirt a few times to pick up fuzz and not be so tacky so it wont leave glue on the copper and mask out trace by trace. It sounds like a lot of work but for small stomp box circuits its really not bad I think you could do one in 5 minutes. It took me maybe 10 minutes tops to do the superfly submini tube amp that way. It was actually really fun and cool looking, mojo-tastic !   

I would suggest getting a laser printer. I picked up a canon LBP6000 for around 50 bucks , it has the toner density option so you can print really thick toner and it makes really nice prints , I recomend it as a cheap good b/w laser printer. There's others out there too around the same price that will do the job well.

I think once you get the positive photo process down, which is pretty easy overall, Its very precise and consistent compared to toner transfer. Now I'm not saying you cant get precision and consistency with toner I'm just saying toner runs out , you change photopaper/magazine paper types, and maybe some copper just doesnt like to clean up or allow toner to stick as it should. Again I'm not downing toner, Just saying its almost more like an art then photo process is.

Since it sounds like you haven't purchased any etchant yet i'd suggest getting some premixed stuff from a local radio shack since its easy to get good results. If you mix it  yourself and get the ratio slightly off it might eat up a board too fast or not etch much at all. I suggest warming the stuff from radioshack it works better above room temp. Usually put the bottle in a warm bath or tub of hot water for a lil while to warm up.

Anway good luck, and take pics I wanna see your first etches, its exciting!

[pappasmurfsharem]

Thanks for the info.

The radio shacks in my area don't seem to carry etchant anymore then again, I find the people there don't really know anything that isn't cellphone related these days so they might not really know and just be putting stuff on the shelves. I suppose I could also print the stuff are work on the laser copiers at least then i have some control over the settings.

The freehand method sounds pretty nice actually after predrilling the board at least for the smaller circuits I'm going for, Which is also nice because I can use a fine tip sharpie to run between IC legs. Hmm that sounds magical indeed.

*edit*
Their website says they have it instock at the store down the road... THE BASTARDS! LIES AND DECEPTION! Kind of expensive for a 16oz bottle though, how long does it last?

[mistahead]

Kyocera printers use a slightly different toner technology (or used to - wern't they a ceramics company once?) and I don't feel it bonds to ANYTHING as well as others, it is also VERY fine particulate matter compared to most other toners.

I don't do etching but that info might come in handy for someone.

[Mustachio]

I've probably etched 30+ boards and 4 or 5 enclosures, still have a quarter bottle left and have started reusing the etchant I saved from the same bottle and etched about 5 more boards with the used etchant. So for just small DIY at home it's not bad at all.  I can't remember I thought it was around 12 bucks which is pricey compared to home made etchant.

You don't need to use much for small boards. I think John puts a couple spoonfuls in a plastic baggie with a small board and rubs it around a bit. Wear gloves and safety glasses!!

Check out the industrial Sharpie black marker with a red label.  Radioshack sells a PCB marker it's OK, its basicly nailpolish in marker form.

[pappasmurfsharem]

I just found this on instructables.

Using a sponge vs the bath method looks promising anyone tried it?

http://m.instructables.com/id/Sponge-Ferric-Chloride-Method-Etch-Circuit-Bo/

[mistahead]

TANGENTMAN ASKS:
I'm not talking about you guys doing ten or more boards, nor the high voltage guys here, small run stomp-box/ruby amp scale guys are the focus of this post.

What is the benefit of doing a "one or two" run PCB etch rather than using vero/stripboard? I'm only coming up with cross talk between vero rails, and I've not (yet) experienced that.

I've no experience with tagboard... where would it be "most suited" in the mix of things? P2P I get is great for small component numbers and high voltage, but not getting hung up on it right now.


ETCHING NEWB MUSES:
As I see it the process of etching the clad copper off of a poly/fibre/whatever board and leaving the masked copper (SUBTRACTIVE - usually less than half of the copper is removed) is not efficient until you reach a certain scale.

I'm not going to change the world this week, but surely there is an aluminium or copper ADDITIVE method which would suit smaller runs much better without requiring too much deviation from off the shelf materials, I'll start looking....

[Mustachio]

Yeah that method will work, just don't press to hard, sorta wipe like he says. My first etch was photo process , I ordered the photo kit from mg chemicals and it came with a few sponge brushes. I use em every time still , Ill lightly wipe off the build up of copper that's being etched away. I use a really small tupperware dish and a small amount of FeCl, so what I do is sort of a mix of a bath and a sponge.  I'll heat it and swish it around a bit while its etching to help agitate the copper coming off the board. It does totally disappear before your eyes and looks pretty neat!

Don't poke a hole your gloves with the corner of the board. That stuff will stain you good. It's really not to scary though just stay alert at what your doing while your doing it and you will be fine.

[Mustachio]

About the additive method , they make silver conductive pens which is sort of a white paste in a pen with a fine point. I bought one a while back to try out and repair traces. I didn't like it it flaked off after it cured and felt a lil rubbery was strange but it did conduct. From my limited experience with it , it didn't seem like something I would trust over time to hold up. They also make a conductive paint that from what I can tell is about the same. Sorta pricey too.

But you could do neat stuff with the paint like paint part of your wall and use that to power some led's maybe embed your ceiling with leds. I wouldn't push to much power through paint on my wall though would be worried of catching the place on fire !!!


I don't much what to say about efficiency of etching small boards and how much copper is removed , Some layouts use a ground pour so less copper is removed some have no pour and most the copper is removed, depends on the layout I guess. I think I read some threads before from some of the guru's talking about pcb vero p2p and the benefits of each but I can't really remember what they where off hand. For most I think it comes down to personal preference.

[mistahead]

Fair cop, should search more before commenting.

Again I'll raise that if you go looking around in paint/art supply stores you can find copper, iron, aluminium (maybe... boring oxide colour), and other similar "paints" which are pretty much just a fine metal dust in an adhesive with a surface tension additive.

They're sold with something akin to hydrogen peroxide and a stopping agent and usually used to metal oxide facade outdoor things - pots, furniture, etc.

[Lizard King]

This is a LONG thread I found on the inter tubes a while back.  It works for me.  Note the part about preparing your boards.  I actually sand my boards lightly with a random orbital sander & 120 grit paper.  Then I use a green pad and then I wash FIVE TIMES (tired to skimp here with bad results) with rubbing alcohol.  I mix 3 caps of H2O2 with 2 caps of Muratic Acid...maybe a tad more acid.

http://fullnet.com/~tomg/gooteepc.htm#1

[pappasmurfsharem]

This is a LONG thread I found on the inter tubes a while back.  It works for me.  Note the part about preparing your boards.  I actually sand my boards lightly with a random orbital sander & 120 grit paper.  Then I use a green pad and then I wash FIVE TIMES (tired to skimp here with bad results) with rubbing alcohol.  I mix 3 caps of H2O2 with 2 caps of Muratic Acid...maybe a tad more acid.

http://fullnet.com/~tomg/gooteepc.htm#1

I saw post somewhere also that using Muriatic and H202 is "virtually infinite" etchant since It creates copper chloride as a result.

Ahh here:
http://www.instructables.com/id/Stop-using-Ferric-Chloride-etchant!--A-better-etc/

[GGBB]

Yeah that method will work, just don't press to hard, sorta wipe like he says. My first etch was photo process , I ordered the photo kit from mg chemicals and it came with a few sponge brushes. I use em every time still , Ill lightly wipe off the build up of copper that's being etched away. I use a really small tupperware dish and a small amount of FeCl, so what I do is sort of a mix of a bath and a sponge.  I'll heat it and swish it around a bit while its etching to help agitate the copper coming off the board. It does totally disappear before your eyes and looks pretty neat!

Don't poke a hole your gloves with the corner of the board. That stuff will stain you good. It's really not to scary though just stay alert at what your doing while your doing it and you will be fine.

That instructable looks almost too good to be true.  Jim - how do the edges come out?  The instructable PCB doesn't look that great around the trace edges - workable but not pretty.  Is that just a matter of technique?  I wonder if it could work for etching enclosures - would make prep a LOT easier - I might be willing to try enclosure etching if the sponge technique could work.

[pappasmurfsharem]

Yeah that method will work, just don't press to hard, sorta wipe like he says. My first etch was photo process , I ordered the photo kit from mg chemicals and it came with a few sponge brushes. I use em every time still , Ill lightly wipe off the build up of copper that's being etched away. I use a really small tupperware dish and a small amount of FeCl, so what I do is sort of a mix of a bath and a sponge.  I'll heat it and swish it around a bit while its etching to help agitate the copper coming off the board. It does totally disappear before your eyes and looks pretty neat!

Don't poke a hole your gloves with the corner of the board. That stuff will stain you good. It's really not to scary though just stay alert at what your doing while your doing it and you will be fine.

That instructable looks almost too good to be true.  Jim - how do the edges come out?  The instructable PCB doesn't look that great around the trace edges - workable but not pretty.  Is that just a matter of technique?  I wonder if it could work for etching enclosures - would make prep a LOT easier - I might be willing to try enclosure etching if the sponge technique could work.

Truthfully I think he is putting more than a Tablespoon on there just looking at the residue on his fingers, but if it works... it will be alot better for me since It will be alot easier to store and keep my kids from getting into the stuff. You can put stuff on the highest shelf possible, but they will find a way.

[Hemmel]

On step 5 of this instructable it says :

"Once you're done etching, pour the etchant back into your storage bottle, rinse off the board, flux, drill, populate, and solder."

What is "flux" I thought flux was in the solder ! I'd drill the board right after cleaning it...

[pappasmurfsharem]

On step 5 of this instructable it says :

"Once you're done etching, pour the etchant back into your storage bottle, rinse off the board, flux, drill, populate, and solder."

What is "flux" I thought flux was in the solder ! I'd drill the board right after cleaning it...

Noun   1.   soldering flux - flux applied to surfaces that are to be joined by soldering; flux cleans the surfaces and results in a better bond
flux - a substance added to molten metals to bond with impurities that can then be readily removed

I believe Rosin in ROSIN CORE solder is a form of flux. So you don't necessarily NEED it, but it seems to make the job easier, I've never used it myself.

[pappasmurfsharem]

So I think I'm going to either

A. Buy a cheapo laser and just ditch the inkjet (not preferable)
or
B. Just take some photo paper up to kinkos(or other print establishment)

I was attempting to draw out frequencycentral's zendrive after I predrilled the holes and unfortunately My hands are a little too shakey (inherited blood sugar issues, ThANKS DAD!!!)

another irritation is the smallest drill bit I have is 1/16" so I need to order a smaller one too.. Le Sigh

[pappasmurfsharem]

Question.

I'm going to try running to kinkos again.

The dimensions got messed up in the file i had. So i'm just bringing my copy up there to get scanned.

They have a Glossy Laser paper up there that they can print too. Will that work or does it have to be Inkjet Paper?

I've read around that the inkjet paper can damage the printers because of the high temps, but everyone here seems to be using it fine.