Unorthodox Telecaster Wiring

[XXISouthpaw]

Hi folks, quick question as I've never really rewired a guitar before.
Want to rewire my tele to have 2 volume controls and two on/off switches for each pickup. Was wondering the best way to do this? Was thinking of wiring each individually like the image below but not sure if it would make difference having two individual wires to the output jack?


Also, I know I'll need to use two DPDT switches and dump the signal to ground when switched off so I don't get that unplugged sound, anyone got a rough idea how I should go about this?

Cheers in advance,
Chris

[ashcat_lt]

May I assume that you actually want exactly two on/off switches - one for each pickup - and not two for each as stated?

May I also assume that you want these two pickups wired in parallel with one another?  Sounds like that's what you're talking about.

In that's the case then it's kind of easy, except that it's not.

The thing is that either of the switches or pots ever short the jack you'll get no sound from either of the pickups, but - as you mentioned - if you don't short the jack when neither pickup is on, you can't get complete silence because the cable will be left open and buzzing.

My suggestion is this: 

Use an SPST for each pickup to just connect it's top wire to its V pot or not.  Wire the V pots as you see in the picture there.  You don't need to run separate wires from each pot to the jack, just connect their wipers together, and the "ground" wires, and run one pair to the jack.  Or whatever is most convenient.

This arrangement will mean that if you turn either of the V pots all the way down, you'll short the jack and get silence without the "open cable" buzz.  If you don't want complete silence, don't turn either V pot down.  Most of the blending action occurs when both pots are set close to the same.  Once one is much more than a little bit louder than the other, you might as well just turn one off.  That is, if you only want to hear one pickup, then you use the switch.  You'll only turn either V pot all the way down "between songs" or when you really want complete silence from the guitar.

I've been rudely interrupted by work over and over again in the hour I've been trying to type this, so I hope it makes sense!

[peterg]

http://cdn.seymourduncan.com/images/support/schematics/tele_2v_no_tone.jpg

Why not use SD's 2 volume, no tone wiring? The toggle is the on/off switch.

If you are set with the separate switch for each pick up a SPST should work for each - pick up to centre lug, output to one lug and ground to the remaining. Two wires to output or daisy chained is fine.

PS. How did you insert the scheme into your message? I've been on this site for a few months and can't figure it out. Too technical for me!

PPS. Ashcat and I were typing at the same time. We stated the same thing only my comments are vague in comparison.

[ashcat_lt]

PS. How did you insert the scheme into your message? I've been on this site for a few months and can't figure it out. Too technical for me!

Hit the "quote" button next to his post and inspect.  Basically, you paste the link into the message, select it, and click the "insert image" button which looks like a picture in a frame.  Or you can manually type the tags.

[XXISouthpaw]

May I assume that you actually want exactly two on/off switches - one for each pickup - and not two for each as stated?

May I also assume that you want these two pickups wired in parallel with one another?  Sounds like that's what you're talking about.

In that's the case then it's kind of easy, except that it's not.

The thing is that either of the switches or pots ever short the jack you'll get no sound from either of the pickups, but - as you mentioned - if you don't short the jack when neither pickup is on, you can't get complete silence because the cable will be left open and buzzing.

My suggestion is this: 

Use an SPST for each pickup to just connect it's top wire to its V pot or not.  Wire the V pots as you see in the picture there.  You don't need to run separate wires from each pot to the jack, just connect their wipers together, and the "ground" wires, and run one pair to the jack.  Or whatever is most convenient.

This arrangement will mean that if you turn either of the V pots all the way down, you'll short the jack and get silence without the "open cable" buzz.  If you don't want complete silence, don't turn either V pot down.  Most of the blending action occurs when both pots are set close to the same.  Once one is much more than a little bit louder than the other, you might as well just turn one off.  That is, if you only want to hear one pickup, then you use the switch.  You'll only turn either V pot all the way down "between songs" or when you really want complete silence from the guitar.

I've been rudely interrupted by work over and over again in the hour I've been trying to type this, so I hope it makes sense!

Yeah you'd be right in your assumptions, sorry I never stated them at first.
So what you're saying is that the blend idea won't be as useful as I'm thinking it will be? Will there be a noticeable difference in volume if both volumes are on full as to just one pickup being on?

http://cdn.seymourduncan.com/images/support/schematics/tele_2v_no_tone.jpg

Why not use SD's 2 volume, no tone wiring? The toggle is the on/off switch.

If you are set with the separate switch for each pick up a SPST should work for each - pick up to centre lug, output to one lug and ground to the remaining. Two wires to output or daisy chained is fine.

PS. How did you insert the scheme into your message? I've been on this site for a few months and can't figure it out. Too technical for me!

PPS. Ashcat and I were typing at the same time. We stated the same thing only my comments are vague in comparison.

Only worry with that schem is that in using the two switches would mean I can get rid of the pickup selector. In my head it makes more sense to have two individual switches rather than the selector, and it means I can use them as kill switches as well if I ever need to.

[XXISouthpaw]

Forgot to say, if I drew up a quick diagram for it would you guys be okay in going over it and making sure it's okay? it's so annoying putting a guitar back together to listen to that crappy hum to reopen it all up again.
Cheers guys.

[peterg]

Forgot to say, if I drew up a quick diagram for it would you guys be okay in going over it and making sure it's okay? it's so annoying putting a guitar back together to listen to that crappy hum to reopen it all up again.
Cheers guys.

Please do so. I rewired my tele to have a volume for each pickup. The bridge pickup is a DiMarzio Chopper T humbucker. The toggle is wired to have the Chopper single coil, in parallel or in series. The neck pick up is controlled only by it's volume pot and the Chopper is controlled by the other pot. Pots are wired as per the Jazz bass in order not to turn both pickups off when one volume is turned all the way down. I also shielded the pick up cavity and back of the pick guard.

[ashcat_lt]

Yeah you'd be right in your assumptions, sorry I never stated them at first.
So what you're saying is that the blend idea won't be as useful as I'm thinking it will be? Will there be a noticeable difference in volume if both volumes are on full as to just one pickup being on?

That's not what I said.  I don't really mess with blending, but I'm sure that it will give you some control over the subtleties of the tones.  The thing is, though, that there is a fairly small range where it actually makes much difference.  If one is on 10, and you turn the other down below 6 or 7 it won't be contributing very much to the overall sound.  

The main point being that you don't really have to worry that either V will kill the guitar at 0, because you won't be trying to turn individual pickups off with their pots.  Dig?

There really shouldn't be much difference in volume between one pickup and both, in a parallel config like this, given that they are decently well matched in volume otherwise.

And yes, post your drawing and we'll tell you what you @#$%ed up.  

[XXISouthpaw]

Just recycled that image on paint, first attempt using paint alone was horrific haha.
That isn't going to cause any ground loop issues is it? I've a bad feeling it will.

[ashcat_lt]

There's no such thing as a ground loop in a guitar.

I don't think you want the wiper from the one pot going to the outside lug of the other.  It should go to the other wiper. 

It doesn't really do you any good to ground the unused pickup.  Leaving it "hanging from ground" is pretty standard procedure.  It might even be argued that shorting the coil will rob some energy from the strings, decreasing sustain and possibly harmonic content to some degree.  Frankly, I think that this would be splitting hairs, but since it doesn't otherwise matter...

[XXISouthpaw]

There's no such thing as a ground loop in a guitar.

I don't think you want the wiper from the one pot going to the outside lug of the other.  It should go to the other wiper. 

It doesn't really do you any good to ground the unused pickup.  Leaving it "hanging from ground" is pretty standard procedure.  It might even be argued that shorting the coil will rob some energy from the strings, decreasing sustain and possibly harmonic content to some degree.  Frankly, I think that this would be splitting hairs, but since it doesn't otherwise matter...

I still want to be able to use both pickups though, so taking the out of the middle lug of the top pot, then wiring it to the right side of the bottom pot would make sense? and what do I do with the ground of the pickups? sorry for such noobish questions, wish I had a qualification in this stuff haha.

[ashcat_lt]

What?

As you have it now, the Neck V pot will act on the neck alone until it hits 0, and then it will kill everything.  The Bridge V works as a Master V at all times so that you can't have Neck on 10 and Bridge on 8, or whatever.  If you turn down the B, you turn down the whole damn thing.

Both wipers need to go the jack tip and nowhere else.  Since they're both going the same place you can wire one to the other and then off to the jack.  The "grounds" look fine to me.  I probably wouldn't run "ground" to the switches like that (for reasons I mentioned above), and I never actually solder to pot cases if I can help it, but it'll work fine as you've got it.

[XXISouthpaw]

Awww That makes total sense, sorry, bit of a blonde moment. I'll give it a go then, cheers.
btw, I only have DPDT switches at hand, they're cool to use if I only use one side though yeah?

[peterg]

Awww That makes total sense, sorry, bit of a blonde moment. I'll give it a go then, cheers.
btw, I only have DPDT switches at hand, they're cool to use if I only use one side though yeah?

They will work but will take up more space than SPDT switches. If you're ever in need of a DPST switch orr two for a future project you'll know wwhere to find them.!

[ashcat_lt]

It is considered a sin over at GuitarNutz to waste switch poles like that, so I'm unable to condone it.   

Jumper all three rows of lugs and you'll have some (probably unnecessary) redundancy in case one side of the switch goes bad.

[mistahead]

+1 for redundancy when you can introduce it at no cost/loss.

[XXISouthpaw]

Thanks for the help chaps, wired up as mentioned and all is well! Cheers.