The Old Price vs Quality Debate

[mremic01]

An average jack does not take any amount of prepwork to have solder adhere - that is a trait of a substandard product as are flimsy contacts, poor tension and threads prone to stripping.

I just said that the prepwork wasn't necessary. And I have not had a problem with the plug making contact or the threads stripping. I've also made it clear that less tension can be desirable. It certainly seems you've got it out for the Tayda jacks   Regardless, they've proven themselves to me to at least at least be worth defending a little.

I can't view your video while I'm at work, as midwayfair said earlier, maybe you guys who have had bad experiences with them are just unlucky. They're hardly the weakest link in any of my builds and I've never felt like I'm cutting corners using them.

[mremic01]

the Tayda ones don't seem like a good deal.

I do have to agree with you on that. They're barely cheaper than Neutriks. They should be priced a bit lower for what they are. But what they are still gets the job done for less. If I didn't want less tension, I would probably pay the extra few cents for something better, but Tayda's are the only cheapos I haven't chucked on sight.

[Arcane Analog]

I think my biggest beef with the Tayda jacks is the sleeve solder lug. The tip lug takes solder pretty well if you sand it a bit, and it looks coppery underneath, but the ground lug silvery even when you take off the top layer and solder doesn't like it as much. They seem to be made out of different material. I don't get bad connections, but the joints never looks as I'd like them to.

These statements stand on their own. Solder should flow easily without any sanding. Poor looking joints are probably poor joints.

I do not care what you use for your builds - they are your builds and I am sure they are fine for your bedroom where the soldering iron is handy. That said, you cannot make the above statements and insist the jacks are decent.

[mremic01]

Oh, for %^&*'s sake... you're really being silly.

You're taking one thing I said and running with it. The joints are fine and hold up to abuse. 25+ builds with these things has proved it to me. I mean, come on, you don't scrape or sand off your lugs before you solder? I thought that was standard practice. No matter how well made a jack is, solder flows better when you're not trying to flow it over oxidation. Same goes for copper traces. Doesn't mean the copper's cheap crap, and I wouldn't appreciate anyone taking the fact that I sand it before I solder to mean that it's substandard, or that the build is only fine for when a soldering iron is handy.

You're also assuming retensioning the thing a few times will break it. Again, I don't get that impression at all, and I actually use them. I also don't need to retention them more than once, and that's for maybe one in a dozen and takes maybe two seconds.

I do not care what you use for your builds - they are your builds and I am sure they are fine for your bedroom where the soldering iron is handy. That said, you cannot make the above statements and insist the jacks are decent.

They are gig-worthy, whether you accept it or not.

[armdnrdy]

The 1/4" phone jack is an old design but.....there are standards.

Let's go back to my previous observation:

"If you insert a 1/4" phone plug into the Tayda jack, look where the tip lands. It does not seat properly."

I ask anyone who doesn't seem to have a problem with these jacks to check out the above for themselves.

This is not how 1/4" phone jacks were/are designed.
A phone jack's tip connection has a detail that is designed to mate with any standard 1/4" phone plug. This is why the end of a phone plug has an indentation.

The jacks in question do not line up properly....the tip connection does not set in the phone plug's tip indentation.

Now either these jacks are designed properly and all of the higher quality 1/4" plugs I have are not designed to standards.....or......
I think you get the point 

[Arcane Analog]

I guess we can stick with multiple persons' sub-standard is another's standard.

[Arcane Analog]

Oh, for %^&*'s sake... you're really being silly.

Not in the least. I am being accurate. If I were looking to this thread for advice on which jack to purchase I would thank the person that warned me away from Tayda's jacks. Do not get me wrong. I love Tayda but their jacks are worthless.

You're taking one thing I said and running with it. The joints are fine and hold up to abuse. 25+ builds with these things has proved it to me. I mean, come on, you don't scrape or sand off your lugs before you solder? I thought that was standard practice. No matter how well made a jack is, solder flows better when you're not trying to flow it over oxidation. Same goes for copper traces. Doesn't mean the copper's cheap crap, and I wouldn't appreciate anyone taking the fact that I sand it before I solder to mean that it's substandard, or that the build is only fine for when a soldering iron is handy.

No. I do not. Quality jacks do not require sanding. Copper is a different story - you do not see many jacks made from copper. Again, sanding to get a good solder flow is indicative of Tayda jacks being substandard.

You're also assuming retensioning the thing a few times will break it. Again, I don't get that impression at all, and I actually use them. I also don't need to retention them more than once, and that's for maybe one in a dozen and takes maybe two seconds.

I am impressed that you can let the cables fall out of the pedal unplug your cables, remove the bottom plate, retention, replace the bottom plate and put the pedal back on your board in 2 seconds. Something tells me a player would take issue with that in a live situation. The one in that crappy video is brand new and I cannot tension it enough to properly grip the plug. You may think that cables that do not seat properly and come out really easy is a good thing but you are certainly in the vast minority. I would wager that anyone with stage experience would disgaree with you. Why would you want to use a jack that does not even fit a 1/4 plug properly?

I have used these jacks before. They are so poor that I even removed them from my test boxes. I have also retentioned a few and they have cracked and are generally too weak to grip the cable. That is the reason why I removed them from my test boxes. That, and I like my patch cables to stay in the pedal. Cracking does not happen with Neutrik when I bend them to fit in tight spaces.

They are gig-worthy, whether you accept it or not.

[timd]

Tayda's customer service got back to me and they offered me a Paypal refund or a higher amount if I took store credit. Not a bad deal... After several orders, those were the only bad jacks, and I'll still continue to order them. I have read the substandard remarks, etc.

Personally, I think they are fine. I have used them for tons of builds - for personal builds, friends, and customers - both domestic and overseas and never had an issue with build reliability.

[Arcane Analog]

You can lead a horse to water but you cannot make it drink.

[timd]

You can lead a horse to water but you cannot make it drink.

I don't think its worth going to war over the 1/4 jacks. You have said your peace and we all heard you. It seems that everyone has different opinions on the matter. I'll consider not ordering the jacks in the future if I have another incident though.

[garcho]

The reason every single piece of pro gear I've ever seen has Switchcraft, Neutrik or Cannon sockets is because they are the standard. Not the 'best' (read: military, 'life-or-death' grade) but professional standard. The reason Tayda can sell those other sockets cheaper is because they're sub-standard. That's not really up for debate. Whether they're good enough for your pedal, or have characteristics that you prefer, is a decision for each builder to make. If you haven't been making gear for years and therefore haven't had the opportunity to see how your stuff holds up over time, consider going with the standard.

[timd]

Very well said.

[Arcane Analog]

What leaves me scratching my head is why anyone would build - let alone sell - a pedal with substandard parts. Saving a few cents versus significantly increasing the potential you or a customer will have issues over something you know is likely to be a problem is a really poor idea.

[Arcane Analog]

I would wager that if you explained the difference and gave a customer the option of paying an extra $2-$5 for the industry standard jack versus a substandard jack the customer would choose the former 99% of the time. The customer probably has no idea on the differences until you tell them.

[timd]

If a customer asked me for specific jacks, knobs, leds, etc - I would do and have done that in the past. For the normal builds, I try my best to keep the costs down so I can have a product I can sell for a cheaper price. I'm not a well known boutique builder, and I wouldn't be able stuff for sky high prices.

I also don't have a huge inventory of parts. The pedal thing is just a hobby that makes me a little change, not a full time thing. If you asked a customer which jacks they wanted, where would it stop? Would you also ask them which (insert any/every part in the build) they wanted too? Could get out of hand quick if you didn't have those parts on hand already.

[Arcane Analog]

If a customer asked me for specific jacks, knobs, leds, etc - I would do and have done that in the past. For the normal builds, I try my best to keep the costs down so I can have a product I can sell for a cheaper price. I'm not a well known boutique builder, and I wouldn't be able stuff for sky high prices.

You can easily mark up another $2 to cover the jacks. That is a weak argument. The customer shipping a pedal back or having someone else repair would cost alot more.

I also don't have a huge inventory of parts. The pedal thing is just a hobby that makes me a little change, not a full time thing. If you asked a customer which jacks they wanted, where would it stop? Would you also ask them which (insert any/every part in the build) they wanted too? Could get out of hand quick if you didn't have those parts on hand already.

When I receive a custom build the customer dictates almost everything. Even with small runs I let the customer decide a number of things - top or side mounted jacks, different knobs, LED, etc etc. This argument would only hold water if you built a substantial amount of identical pedals. You are only building a small number of pedals so accomodating for the type of jack is pretty damn easy. That, or, you can simply charge the extra $2 and use the standard jack from the start.

[Thecomedian]

I already tried to thread a bunch of different nuts. The problem is what they are threading onto. The shaft was machined improperly and won't fit any size.

sounds like tayda's supplier is the one screwing them, or alternatively, getting screwed by buying from the lowest bidding manufacturing company. You pay for what you get.

[LucifersTrip]

Just thought you guys might get a kick outta this since you've already discussed the low-end side.

Here's a Mallory jack that I pulled from a military level communication device. almost solid metal.

[garcho]

^ makes Switchcraft look like something for a DIYer. 

[armdnrdy]

Since we're throwing up pictures:

Neutrik jack:




Tayda jack:



I don't know how after seeing these images anyone could sell a pedal to a customer with a clear conscience using the Tayda jacks.