The Old Price vs Quality Debate

[Jopn]

I have two patchbays like that that were given to me for free... which kind of continues to throw a wrench in the "you get what you pay for" idiom

As far as the Tayda jacks debate goes, I'm very happy with the enclosed jacks that I've received from them.  That being said, I understand that part of the savings is accomplished through lax QA, so I make sure to inspect that everything is functioning (in this case, the plug is seated) correctly).  If I were at a point where my time actually = dollars, then I would put that QA process back on the manufacturer and pay for it through higher purchase price. 

[pickdropper]

The enclosed jacks from them do seem to be a bit better quality, but the Neutrik ones can be had from Mouser for about the same price, so I prefer those.

[chromesphere]

Everyones got their own horse to back hah?  Mine are probably switchcraft or neutrik.  I had an issue with some cheap ass jacks that would make a connection between tip and ground if you overtightened the nut on the thread.  Hours lost in fault diagnosing. Since changing i havent had any problems.  I would perfer a tighter grip on the cable then reliability issues personally, and i havent found a cheaper alternative that i'd classify as reliable.  Switchcraft are bulletproof, my favourite but with the price tag.  Neutrik are very good.  The little wire hole on the lugs of the neutriks can be a bit annoying though.

I'm finding alot of tayda's stock to be inferior.  You really start to notice the difference when you order things from a proper electronics supplier (with th associated cost).  loving Taydas 9mm pots though

[Jopn]

One other strike against Tayda, has anyone reviewed items on their site before?  It seems that any that I review that look at all negative sit waiting to be moderated forever and never post.

I ordered 3mm metal LED bezels and half were bad.  Put in a review to buy extras since they were cheap and some came out faulty, and it's been almost a week and hasn't posted to the item listing.  I'd be fine with this if they reached out to me to try to resolve the issue or something, but at this point it looks like they are just cherry picking their reviews.

[chromesphere]

One other strike against Tayda, has anyone reviewed items on their site before?  It seems that any that I review that look at all negative sit waiting to be moderated forever and never post.

I ordered 3mm metal LED bezels and half were bad.  Put in a review to buy extras since they were cheap and some came out faulty, and it's been almost a week and hasn't posted to the item listing.  I'd be fine with this if they reached out to me to try to resolve the issue or something, but at this point it looks like they are just cherry picking their reviews.

^ AMAZED I never noticed this before. Scanned through some product pages, capacitors, resistors, enclosures etc. Only 4 or 5 star reviews.  If this is true, I've lost respect for Tayda...

[Jopn]

One other strike against Tayda, has anyone reviewed items on their site before?  It seems that any that I review that look at all negative sit waiting to be moderated forever and never post.

I ordered 3mm metal LED bezels and half were bad.  Put in a review to buy extras since they were cheap and some came out faulty, and it's been almost a week and hasn't posted to the item listing.  I'd be fine with this if they reached out to me to try to resolve the issue or something, but at this point it looks like they are just cherry picking their reviews.

^ AMAZED I never noticed this before. Scanned through some product pages, capacitors, resistors, enclosures etc. Only 4 or 5 star reviews.  If this is true, I've lost respect for Tayda...

I'll post an update in a week or two to see what happens with the reviews.  One of the reviews I posted was completely positive, but also hasn't made it through whatever moderation system they have set up.  However, I can still see my reviews under my customer profile section (just not when I visit the items themselves).

I do know, however, that I tried to post a negative review about some DC jacks that I got (some of the nuts had poor threading, one had no threading at all) at least a month back.  That review is nowhere to be found.

[pickdropper]

I ran across a weird thing with some 9mm pots I got from them.  One of the pots had a shaft that had a diameter that was .012" less than standard, which is pretty far off.  The pot worked, so it isn't a big deal, but it does make me wonder if Tayda gets things cheaper because they are buying slightly out of spec parts.  I've gotten things that were electrically out of spec before, but this was the first time getting something mechanically out of spec.

[Jopn]

I ran across a weird thing with some 9mm pots I got from them.  One of the pots had a shaft that had a diameter that was .012" less than standard, which is pretty far off.  The pot worked, so it isn't a big deal, but it does make me wonder if Tayda gets things cheaper because they are buying slightly out of spec parts.  I've gotten things that were electrically out of spec before, but this was the first time getting something mechanically out of spec.

I'd put that on the manufacturer.  Those are branded Alphas right?  No manufacturer should let a branded item out the door that's failed QA.

[pickdropper]

I ran across a weird thing with some 9mm pots I got from them.  One of the pots had a shaft that had a diameter that was .012" less than standard, which is pretty far off.  The pot worked, so it isn't a big deal, but it does make me wonder if Tayda gets things cheaper because they are buying slightly out of spec parts.  I've gotten things that were electrically out of spec before, but this was the first time getting something mechanically out of spec.

I'd put that on the manufacturer.  Those are branded Alphas right?  No manufacturer should let a branded item out the door that's failed QA.

Agreed.  I wouldn't expect a manufacturer of Alpha's size to sell off QA rejects as B stock, but anything is possible.

Whatever the reason, it made it into circulation somehow and it's not the first time I've received out of spec parts from Tayda.

[GGBB]

We know Tayda has sold (not sure if it was knowingly) counterfeit JFETs, what about counterfeit Alpha pots?

[Jopn]

We know Tayda has sold (not sure if it was knowingly) counterfeit JFETs, what about counterfeit Alpha pots?

Were they actually counterfeiting a brand name for JFETs, or just selling transistors that were out of spec from what they should have been?  Multiple manufacturers make different parts obviously, and some will be better quality than others.  That's not counterfeiting, that's like saying that a KIA is a counterfeit sedan...

[GGBB]

We know Tayda has sold (not sure if it was knowingly) counterfeit JFETs, what about counterfeit Alpha pots?

Were they actually counterfeiting a brand name for JFETs, or just selling transistors that were out of spec from what they should have been?  Multiple manufacturers make different parts obviously, and some will be better quality than others.  That's not counterfeiting, that's like saying that a KIA is a counterfeit sedan...

There's a thread somewhere that covers it.  I can't recall for sure, there were several fakes discussed, including forged markings, as well as possible "out of spec" items, but it wasn't a case of a single unit that was off.  I think by definition a J201 for example ceases to be a J201 if it isn't within the manufacturer's specifications, so saying something is an out of spec J201 is like saying a sedan is an out of spec minivan.  With regards to Tayda, I believe their situation involved Fairchild J201s or 2N5457s  that were not within spec (but I could be mistaken).  I find it hard to believe that a manufacturer like Fairchild would do anything but destroy out of spec units that failed QA.  I believe it was Jon Patton (midwayfair) that had some of them.

I'm not trying to paint Tayda as a deliberate counterfeiter, just questioning whether it's possible they get some of their stock from questionable sources.  Could explain some of their low prices.

[jubal81]

I ran across a weird thing with some 9mm pots I got from them.  One of the pots had a shaft that had a diameter that was .012" less than standard, which is pretty far off.  The pot worked, so it isn't a big deal, but it does make me wonder if Tayda gets things cheaper because they are buying slightly out of spec parts.  I've gotten things that were electrically out of spec before, but this was the first time getting something mechanically out of spec.

I've noticed the same thing. It wouldn't surprise me at all if Tayda's business model is moving 'reject' parts.

[psychedelicfish]

Fake or not, Tayda's parts are cheap and (mostly) of a usable quality.

About the fake JFETs, I got some of them from Tayda too, and measured them with the circuit found here, and found all of the 7 the FETs I tested to be higher than spec for IDSS except one, which was right on the upper limit. The VGS_(off) values I got were all within spec, however all were above 1V (or actually, below -1V). I've been looking at the datasheet, and from what I know about JFET manufacturing, it is incredibly difficult to make JFETs consistently and accurately. On the datasheet, which gives values for not only the J201 but the J202 and 203, it says up the top "Sourced from Process 52". What I'm guessing is that "Process 52" makes a whole bunch of JFETs, which are sorted into the different types according to measured characteristics, in this case J201s, J202s, and J203s. I think that Tayda has either bought relabelled J202s or relabelled them themselves, rather than getting hold of out of range JFETs which, in agreement with Gord, I believe manufacturers like Fairchild would destroy.

After I had tested my JFETs, I emailed Tayda's I received my order but have problem Department and got this reply:

Hello Edward,

i am sorry for my late reply.

Have you recently bought any J201's from any other vendor which matches with Fairchile datasheet specifications? If yes, can you please let me know.

Thanks,
Nalinee

I gave Nalinee links to Small Bear and Aron's store, and she replied:

Hello Edward,

Thank you for the info.

We know both companies, actually one of them is our regular customer.

Thank you for choosing us.

Best Regards,
Nalinee

Tayda does know the FETs are out of range, but they still sell them, and claim they're J201s too.

[duck_arse]

as far as I remember, ic's are tested on wafers as good/no good. the bad are marked and don't get encapsulated. the tests applied to transistors/fets would be far simpler than for ic's, so wouldn't the individual fets be tested/sorted on the wafer before cutting? and parts that don't match a/b/c spec then would also not be encapsulated, which would make it hard to flog them as 2n5457 or j201 elc.

[tubegeek]

from what I know about JFET manufacturing, it is incredibly difficult to make JFETs consistently and accurately.

That depends on which parameter you are talking about. I'd be very surprised if the lead spacing and body size were outside the TO-92 spec.

[timd]

I ran across a weird thing with some 9mm pots I got from them.  One of the pots had a shaft that had a diameter that was .012" less than standard, which is pretty far off.  The pot worked, so it isn't a big deal, but it does make me wonder if Tayda gets things cheaper because they are buying slightly out of spec parts.  I've gotten things that were electrically out of spec before, but this was the first time getting something mechanically out of spec.

I've noticed the same thing. It wouldn't surprise me at all if Tayda's business model is moving 'reject' parts.

I'm sure this is at least partially the case. I just got a batch of knobs and the set screws on some were pretty messed up. They worked, but the screws looked like a bodybuilder had overtightened them!

[pickdropper]

JFets are known for variability in manufacturing, which is why their tolerances are fairly wide.  R.G Keen wrote a good bit about this in his article on JFet matching.  The JFet specs are generally chosen so that the manufacturer can get high yield.  The complaints about JFets from Tayda is that they are already outside of the acceptable tolerances defined by the manufacturer

So what is going on is either:

A). The parts are real but out of spec or
B). The parts are relabeled versions of a different, less desirable JFet.

I've purchased JFets from China through a supposedly reputable dealer and ended up with type B.  they were clearly not the j201s that I thought I was buying.

As far as the Tayda parts go, I have no idea what they are shipping.  It is very possible they just buy from various sources in Asia and take it on good faith that they are getting what they order.

[GGBB]

A). The parts are real but out of spec or

I'll stand by my earlier statement that I don't believe this could happen - at least not with producers like Fairchild.  But I'm not sure we can really know.

As far as the Tayda parts go, I have no idea what they are shipping.  It is very possible they just buy from various sources in Asia and take it on good faith that they are getting what they order.

That would be my assumption as well.

[duck_arse]

So what is going on is either:

A). The parts are real but out of spec or
B). The parts are relabeled versions of a different, less desirable JFet.

the "out of spec" parts would not leave the fabrication area. manufacturers are not going to cut bad die and stick them into to92's if they can't sort them into some part #, ie, is within spec. I reckon the dodgy parts must all be re-numbered, because they must all conform to some spec to get out of the factory.

surely.

[edit:] why have I suddenly completely fergotten the # of the plastic transistor package?