Sexy on the inside

[merlinb]

It's neat for sure, but the neatest thing is board-mounted hardware. That's the pro way.

Unless it's jacks, then its broken solder joints in a couple years.

You're supposed to use the nuts and locating tabs that are so conveniently provided on the hardware, to bolt the hardware to the chassis. The idea is that the hardware holds the PCB in place, not the other way around.
Not doing doing it properly is, admittedly, going to lead to failures. But then so is using solid-core wire for offboard wiring, and loads of "booteek" pedals do that!

Unless by professional you mean a cost cutting measure to decrease build time and increase profit but thereby sacrificing durability and ease of repair, then yes, board-mounted hardware is very professional.

A rats nest of wiring is waaay harder to repair than a single component than can be desoldered from a PCB! C'mon!

Unsoldering a 3PDT from a PCB is a nightmare.

You need a better solder sucker.

[DougH]

R.G. I agree that board mounted components can work if the board is mechanically supported by something other than the solder joint on a pot, jack, switch, etc. This is the case in one of my tube amps where standoffs support the board around the tube sockets to reduce stress due to pulling tubes. This is not typically the case with stompboxes though where people 'cheat' by using their board mounted components as a mounting system for the board itself.

The devil is in the details and I wasn't going to get into all of that. My angle in this is, okay, what if it does fail? How is it going to fail? I contend that a few broken wires on a pot, jack, or even PCB is less catastrophic than a broken PCB.

[aion]

Let's step out of the hypothetical for a sec. Has anyone ever seen PCB-mounted pots break on a double-sided, through-hole plated board? Stomp switches, DC and audio jacks I understand, and I don't ever board-mount those either, but low-impact stuff like pots and board-mounted toggle switches should be as secure as it gets.

I don't do primarily it as a cost-saving measure, although I do hate wiring pots more than almost anything in the world—I do it because it's more secure and I feel better about its reliability. To me the risk is much higher of a short or a broken wire if the PCB is free-floating, and I don't trust the adhesive on standoffs over the long term. So my debate isn't reliability vs. cost savings, it's one method of reliability vs. another.

[Arcane Analog]

A rats nest of wiring is waaay harder to repair than a single component than can be desoldered from a PCB! C'mon!

Sounds to me like you are dependent on PCB mounted components because you have poor wiring skills. You need to work on your wiring. Pro wiring jobs do not look like a rats nest and they are far more easily repaired than removing every last nut and pulling the entire guts of the pedal. If you are wiring properly, you simply need to remove/reattach wires.  

[Arcane Analog]

Let's step out of the hypothetical for a sec. Has anyone ever seen PCB-mounted pots break on a double-sided, through-hole plated board? Stomp switches, DC and audio jacks I understand, and I don't ever board-mount those either, but low-impact stuff like pots and board-mounted toggle switches should be as secure as it gets.

I don't do primarily it as a cost-saving measure, although I do hate wiring pots more than almost anything in the world—I do it because it's more secure and I feel better about its reliability. To me the risk is much higher of a short or a broken wire if the PCB is free-floating, and I don't trust the adhesive on standoffs over the long term. So my debate isn't reliability vs. cost savings, it's one method of reliability vs. another.

Yes, I have. A stray foot making accidental contact with a pot or switch can easily crack the board.

Why would you ever have a free floating PCB? The PCB should be secured to the box via standoffs.

If PCB mounted hardware was more secure then the old Military Spec builds would have used PCB mounts and not wired leads.

[merlinb]

Sounds to me like you are dependent on PCB mounted components because you have poor wiring skills. You need to work on your wiring. Pro wiring jobs do not look like a rats nest and they are far more easily repaired than removing every last nut and pulling the entire guts of the pedal. If you are wiring properly, you simply need to remove/reattach wires.  

By rats nest I don't necessarily mean messy. The picture in the first post qualifies as a rats nest-  too many wires holding that thing down.

[seedlings]

For the OP:

One technique I have seen used to excellent effect is to make a soldering jig, so you can arrange the off-board components <ducking> as if they were installed in an enclosure, but you can still have good access to them. A jig can be as simple as holes of convenient size drilled in a piece of plywood, which supports the PCB and the off-board components.

here's an example:

Alright!  Now that's an idea I can run with.  In your builds, there will be just a bit of wire tucked away, but not a country mile's worth like in my builds.  Thank you!

Thank you very much for taking notice.....I measure my wire lengths ahead of time...I wire most of the circuit outside of the enclosure, then assemble it...I'm obsessive compulsive like that.  solid core wire helps too 

Tony, I love the detail, but I don't really expect to ever accomplish something like this.  (I use sold core wire because there is plenty of free scrap from work).

CHAD

[Paul Marossy]

Has anyone ever seen PCB-mounted pots break on a double-sided, through-hole plated board? Stomp switches, DC and audio jacks I understand, and I don't ever board-mount those either, but low-impact stuff like pots and board-mounted toggle switches should be as secure as it gets.

My viewpoint exactly. If you have a high quality double side plated thru hole PCB, very unlikely that something is going to break. I've had the PCB mounted pots break and the PCB itself was never damaged (the pot itself is the much weaker link). If you have a cheaply manufactured PCB where the plated thru hole comes out when you change a component, then yeah, you might expect a failure to occur sometime down the road. But even then I have a hard time seeing it fail in normal use. I mean are all musicians freaking arm dragging gorilla brutes that only want to destroy whatever equipment they have by throwing it around and driving their car over it? Nothing is going to survive being thrown off a 1,000 foot cliff, no matter how it was wired.

Seems to me there are two camps here: the ones who want everything built like a Matchless amp and people who think other methods are fine. And you have the choice of how much money you want to shell out for what you think is "the right way to do it".

[rousejeremy]

There is also the camp that thinks everything they do is perfect and everybody else is wrong.

[aion]

There is also the camp that thinks everything they do is perfect and everybody else is wrong.

That's one thing we can all agree on

[musiclikscreams]

is it just me or has there been a lot of thread jacking with very slightly off topic debates lately?

i'm so happy this was brought up.  my wires always look like a mess, even with a stomp switch wiring board and ribbon cable.  That soldering jig is GENIUS!  i'm definitely gonna try that out on my next build.  Thanks guys!

[rousejeremy]

The best advice I got was to have the wires run from their connections at 90 degree angles and go along the edges of the box. I mount all the hardware on the outside of the drilled enclosure to wire up the board to the pots and do the switch and jacks inside the enclosure.

[tubegeek]

Just a note on the jig: the page I got that image from also mentions that the jig is useful for play-testing the circuit during the time between soldering and boxing-up, so while adjusting trimpots etc.

[Arcane Analog]

If you make alot of pedals you can make a jig out of an enclosure and mount everything on the outside of the box with a breakout box for the switches and in/out jacks for testing. That lets you wire it perfectly for that size of enclosure.

[rousejeremy]

The breakout box is the way to go. I've been meaning on making one for too long. Running alligator clips all over the place is such a waste of time and prone to my stupidity.

[seedlings]

With the breakout box or jig idea, I think it would be better for me to solder to the pots first, then trim the wires and solder to the board.

For sure, though, I need to be more patient.  Once the circuit works, I just want it in the box and on the floor ASAP - and this is where some of my problems arise.

CHAD

[Arcane Analog]

The breakout box is the way to go. I've been meaning on making one for too long. Running alligator clips all over the place is such a waste of time and prone to my stupidity.

Alligator Clips = Aggravation Clips

[musiclikscreams]

If you make alot of pedals you can make a jig out of an enclosure and mount everything on the outside of the box with a breakout box for the switches and in/out jacks for testing. That lets you wire it perfectly for that size of enclosure.

you have a picture of one?

[Arcane Analog]

A template box is simply a box drilled for the layout you want. Just populate the pots on the outside.

I will have to look for or snap a picture of my breakout box.

[R.G.]

i'm so happy this was brought up.  my wires always look like a mess, even with a stomp switch wiring board and ribbon cable.  That soldering jig is GENIUS!  i'm definitely gonna try that out on my next build.  Thanks guys!

I had that problem with neat wiring.

I posted this:

on Geofex in July of 2000.