Lost in the jungle of DSP - help

[rompelstilchen]

Hello,

i just achieved a 8 bit arduino micro stombox, but it is cheap/slow, and i had questions about dsp in general

anybody has advice on the following :

- i checked the ToneCore DSP from line6, calling the local seller, he says he stopped his contract with Line6 becos of crappy products and after sale (do i still order this ? is it hot or not ?)

- i saw a few arduino mega projects using dsp shields (with and without dsp) but i am not convinced of the power/speed of these stuffs

- there are many dsp chips, but most of them are smd, so i would have to buy material to create my own pcb
i dont have much experience in smd soldering and i am not sure of WHITCH dsp chip to order

the goal is to build a powerful stompbox, with an expression pedal jacked to it that allows me to create anything i want
like whammy, granular synthesis, filtering, modulating guitar sound with recorded samples
i also want something able to handle a lot of code really fast and with a reasonable amount of memory to create delays...
does this exist, is it feasible ? so far i got no certitude

plz help me

thx

[kingswayguitar]

sorry i cannot help, but welcome to the forum and good luck. stick with it.

[garcho]

...an expression pedal jacked to it that allows me to create anything i want... does this exist, is it feasible?

I think you gotta buy it, not make it. Most of those crazy DSP pedals have proprietary ICs.

There's a DSP branch to this forum. Have fun!

[samhay]

I think you gotta buy it, not make it. Most of those crazy DSP pedals have proprietary ICs.

That's not the spirit. It can be done, it just isn't necessarily easy, and it sounds like the OP has made some decent progress too.
There are plenty of fairly fancy (ds)PICs that are available in through-hole packages, and there are plenty of memory options, which accompany these. You can program them in C with various compilers too. Otherwise, in addition to the arduino projects, the FV-1 seems to be moderately popular - http://www.spinsemi.com/products.html

Oh - and +1 on the DSP sub-forum.

[garcho]

That's not the spirit.

So true. Forget what I said, I'm an idiot!

[Digital Larry]

I bought a ToneCore DSP kit a few years back and only recently got around to trying it out.  I think that FreeScale's Symphony SDK is based on Eclipse with some specific FreeScale tools plugged into it.  However, as available from FreeScale it's a non starter because it's expecting you to install it on a specific version of the Java SDK 1.5 or something and in spite of me trying to install many Java SDK 1.5.x, 1.4, 1.3, 1.6, etc.  I could not get past that.  I only have an hour a day to solve these kinds of issues for my own fun and games so for now I have given up on that.  I can't recommend it as a getting started point.

[Digital Larry]

I have spent a lot of time with the FV-1.  It's pretty cool but it is not a general purpose DSP system.  I'm surprised at how much people have gotten out of it, in terms of creative algorithms.  Spin Semi's distributor, Experimental Noise, sells modules with the chip built-in so you don't have to do any SMD soldering.  I adapted one of these onto a Veroboard for my own experiments.

There is also the CoolAudio V1000 which is a clone of the Alesis AL3102 (I think).  Conceptually it seems similar to the FV-1, although I'm unaware that CoolAudio makes any sort of dev board or a way for a DIY person to get started.  If you want to order 1,000 chips sight unseen you might get their attention.

[rompelstilchen]

...an expression pedal jacked to it that allows me to create anything i want... does this exist, is it feasible?

I think you gotta buy it, not make it. Most of those crazy DSP pedals have proprietary ICs.

There's a DSP branch to this forum. Have fun!

it's crappy so i have to buy it ?

[rompelstilchen]

I think you gotta buy it, not make it. Most of those crazy DSP pedals have proprietary ICs.

That's not the spirit. It can be done, it just isn't necessarily easy, and it sounds like the OP has made some decent progress too.
There are plenty of fairly fancy (ds)PICs that are available in through-hole packages, and there are plenty of memory options, which accompany these. You can program them in C with various compilers too. Otherwise, in addition to the arduino projects, the FV-1 seems to be moderately popular - http://www.spinsemi.com/products.html

Oh - and +1 on the DSP sub-forum.

FV-1 is dedicated to reverds, not realy general purpous

OP ?

[rompelstilchen]

I have spent a lot of time with the FV-1.  It's pretty cool but it is not a general purpose DSP system.  I'm surprised at how much people have gotten out of it, in terms of creative algorithms.  Spin Semi's distributor, Experimental Noise, sells modules with the chip built-in so you don't have to do any SMD soldering.  I adapted one of these onto a Veroboard for my own experiments.

There is also the CoolAudio V1000 which is a clone of the Alesis AL3102 (I think).  Conceptually it seems similar to the FV-1, although I'm unaware that CoolAudio makes any sort of dev board or a way for a DIY person to get started.  If you want to order 1,000 chips sight unseen you might get their attention.

I dont understand why manufacturers make so much fuss about a chip that only do reverb
there are so many different effects out there

[Resynthesis]

Don't Line6 and Behringer use the Freescale DSP kit in some of their pedals? I remember some discussion on the other forum about being able to bodge a JTAG cable and using a cheap Behringer box as a development kit. Dunno if they ever got anywhere with it though.

Ah, search the other site for "Tonecore DSP developer kit" and you'll find it. Interesting stuff but...

[Mac Walker]

I believe if I had the time and energy I would go this route (it's on my list dammit!)

http://howleraudio.com/frontpage/?page_id=2

"Eight independent 80 Mhz cores" - I am guessing this is powerful enough to do whatever you want....

If I recall the developer won a contest that the chip mfg. held, and basically turned it into a business....

[Digital Larry]

I dont understand why manufacturers make so much fuss about a chip that only do reverb
there are so many different effects out there

Not sure where you got this impression that it only does reverb.  It has presets and if you add an external EEPROM and can deal with the REALLY obscure DSP assembler you can concoct your own algorithms, up to a point.

In my limited goofing around with it I have done reverb, single delays, multi-tap delays, state-variable filters, envelope follower (controlling filter or ring modulator), ring modulator, chorus, tremolo, flange, phase shifting, octave fuzz (full wave rectifier), half wave rectifier, pitch shifting, overdrive, distortion, limited combinations of the above, and maybe some others I can't recall. 

Others have developed algorithms that let you do tap-tempo control e.g. for delay.

[Digital Larry]

I believe if I had the time and energy I would go this route (it's on my list dammit!)

http://howleraudio.com/frontpage/?page_id=2

"Eight independent 80 Mhz cores" - I am guessing this is powerful enough to do whatever you want....

If I recall the developer won a contest that the chip mfg. held, and basically turned it into a business....

I looked at that one too.  Looks cool, although at a certain point you are constrained by the 8-core layout.  Ideally you would not have to care about such things.  That is certainly just my opinion, not having tried it.  So maybe there's something about it that would really knock my socks off if I tried it.

As much as some people do want to program their own effects and have the knowledge and patience to do so, it seems such a small market that I don't think anyone has really succeeded at the totally do-it-yourself strategy for a commercial project.

[amptramp]

For the OP, would a Raspberry Pi processor work better than an Arduino?  It may not be DSP but it should be a bit more capabel than an Arduino.

[rompelstilchen]

I dont understand why manufacturers make so much fuss about a chip that only do reverb
there are so many different effects out there

Not sure where you got this impression that it only does reverb.  It has presets and if you add an external EEPROM and can deal with the REALLY obscure DSP assembler you can concoct your own algorithms, up to a point.

In my limited goofing around with it I have done reverb, single delays, multi-tap delays, state-variable filters, envelope follower (controlling filter or ring modulator), ring modulator, chorus, tremolo, flange, phase shifting, octave fuzz (full wave rectifier), half wave rectifier, pitch shifting, overdrive, distortion, limited combinations of the above, and maybe some others I can't recall. 

Others have developed algorithms that let you do tap-tempo control e.g. for delay.

well on the main page it says it is a reverb chip

i''l have adeeper look

[rompelstilchen]

I believe if I had the time and energy I would go this route (it's on my list dammit!)

http://howleraudio.com/frontpage/?page_id=2

"Eight independent 80 Mhz cores" - I am guessing this is powerful enough to do whatever you want....

If I recall the developer won a contest that the chip mfg. held, and basically turned it into a business....

I looked at that one too.  Looks cool, although at a certain point you are constrained by the 8-core layout.  Ideally you would not have to care about such things.  That is certainly just my opinion, not having tried it.  So maybe there's something about it that would really knock my socks off if I tried it.

As much as some people do want to program their own effects and have the knowledge and patience to do so, it seems such a small market that I don't think anyone has really succeeded at the totally do-it-yourself strategy for a commercial project.

well generaly, people playing guitar dont have coding knowledge, especialy in dsp field

[Digital Larry]

well on the main page it says it is a reverb chip

i''l have adeeper look

Check the following links:

http://www.spinsemi.com/programs.php
http://www.spinsemi.com/knowledge_base/coding_examples.html
http://www.spinsemi.com/guitar_amp_application.html

and to toot my own horn just a little...
http://holycityaudio.com/spincad-designer-2/

[rompelstilchen]

well on the main page it says it is a reverb chip

i''l have adeeper look

Check the following links:

http://www.spinsemi.com/programs.php
http://www.spinsemi.com/knowledge_base/coding_examples.html
http://www.spinsemi.com/guitar_amp_application.html

and to toot my own horn just a little...
http://holycityaudio.com/spincad-designer-2/

quiet convincing
is the spincad completely working/finished ?

[rompelstilchen]

well on the main page it says it is a reverb chip

i''l have adeeper look

Check the following links:

http://www.spinsemi.com/programs.php
http://www.spinsemi.com/knowledge_base/coding_examples.html
http://www.spinsemi.com/guitar_amp_application.html

and to toot my own horn just a little...
http://holycityaudio.com/spincad-designer-2/

i see there is a dev board, but is there a way to interface a standalone dsp chip with usb for programming, in case i make my own board?