TS9 build troubleshooting

[Myrkky Nuoli]

Hi!

Building an Ibanez TS9 clone to perfboard according to this layout:

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-JAuuB19ZKvY/T0avfVqYieI/AAAAAAAAA1g/uXujCEfbwdg/s1600/Ibanez+TS9.png

The problem is, it's completely dead. Bypass works but switched on, nothing. I'll take pictures later when I can.

The transistor voltages don't seem right to me, especially the emitter values. Here are everything I've measured anyways:

IC:

Pin 1 5.08
Pin 2 5.24
Pin 3 4.99
Pin 4 0
Pin 5 5.07
Pin 6 5.08
Pin 7 5.08
Pin 8 10.17


Q1

C 10.17
B 3.27
E 4.25


Q2

c 10.17
B 3.25
E 4.19

D1

Anode: 5.08
Cathode: 5.25

D2

Cathode: 5.08
Anode: 5.25


I'm using a cheap 9v dc adapter at the moment. It seems to give 10.18 volts. Shouldn't be a problem, right?
What I've already done:

Changed two wrong value resistors and fixed two shortages (overlapping rows). There seems to be none now. Checked that the jacks are not shorted. Well the bypass works anyways so.. of course they aren't.
Where to go now? I'm dumbfounded.

[Myrkky Nuoli]

Alright, the transistors were the wrong way around, now I'm getting approximately 10v, 3v, 2,5v so that should be ok, right? Also, I'm completely missing ja capacitor... Moving on..

[GibsonGM]

Layouts aren't any use for troubleshooting, Myrkky!  You need a schematic for that.  
But, I can tell you a couple of things:

Your DC adapter should work ok - it may cause noise during operation, but we haven't gotten that far yet!

What I would do is to use an audio probe to listen to the signal path, and try to find where the signal drops out.  That is usually because of a short you did not see.  At least if you get the signal INTO the chip, you will have some data to work further with.

Yes, your numbers SEEM close to correct...

[Myrkky Nuoli]

I was afraid you'd say that! But yep, impossible to follow the layout as it is. The bad thing is, I've got no schematic. I was so overenthusiastic that I just jumped the gun after finding the first relatively compact looking layout.

I've got everything in place now and the readings are near to what they should be and guess what. We've got sound!! YAY! Not the kind of sound I want to but hey.. It'll be easier to work from here. The signal is very weak and the volume engages at the very end of the volume pot, boost is minimal. Pretty much cuts the signal rather than boosts it. So, go around fixing bad solder joints, right? I'll probably resolder the pots first. Any other ideas? The audio probe is a completely new thing to me as I'm a rookie, mostly used to kits. I'll definitely make myself one. Can I tell a spot where the signal is weakened with a probe or just if it dies completely?

[Myrkky Nuoli]

Alright, tone and drive pots are fully operating now, I think. The only problem left is that I don't get very much volume boost. Cold solder joint somewhere or something else?

[Myrkky Nuoli]

Ugh, now this is confusing me a bit. I turned the trannies back to wrong way around and now it seems to work exactly as intended. What is this voodoo sorcery? If this was the right way around, emitter would show 0,5v more than the base.

[GibsonGM]

Try reading this, Myrkky!     http://www.diystompboxes.com/smfforum/index.php?topic=29816.0

I think it is safe to say you have some wiring errors there!  But if it is working at all, that means you will be able to make it work properly, in time!     You have to start with basic things, such as making sure your power supply polarity is correct, and so on.  The article will help you to "keep it simple, stupid" (KISS) and focus on the most common problems!   This happens to everyone when they are new.  Keep trying.

You definitely will need an audio probe, so that should be an important item for you to make. It is very easy to make and use, and can solve most of these problems in minutes! 

Read that, and post anything you find...

[Myrkky Nuoli]

Thanks for the link! I've read that, very helpful stuff. The strange thing is that the pedal is now working exactly as intended. I A/B'd it side to side with a commercial TS clone and the gain/volume boost levels are pretty matched, this one sounds a little better though. So I guess I'll just leave it as it is 'cause it feels perfect righ now 

Gotta test it with the big amps when I get to our rehearsal space though.

[GibsonGM]

You're welcome! Glad it is working for you.   But if it didn't work, and now it does, that usually means there is a bad connection - maybe a wire that needs to be re-soldered, or something is shorting out.  So the trouble may come back.   Now you know what to do!

[Myrkky Nuoli]

You're welcome! Glad it is working for you.   But if it didn't work, and now it does, that usually means there is a bad connection - maybe a wire that needs to be re-soldered, or something is shorting out.  So the trouble may come back.   Now you know what to do!

There's no symptoms of bad soldering / shortage actually. The only strange thing is that the trannies are telling me approximately 9,5v cathode, 3v base, 3,5v emitter which doesn't make any sense. They are now positioned according to this image:



...which I think should be correct. The weird thing is that if I turn it other way around the emitter says 3v and base 3,5v. Like it should be, right? (I'm talking about the bottom leg as emitter even though it obviously is cathode other way around). But when the voltages make sense, I get a weak ass signal. All I did was turn the trannies other way around and I got it working 100%. They should be right according to the image but the voltages feel like upside down. Well, it totally works and there hasn't been any kind of reliability issues, just straight up not working and I found those error. I forgot to add some caps and stupid things like that 

Thanks again for the help. Now that I feel a little more confident I'm moving on to a silicon fuzz face and after that, Skreddy Lunar Module Deluxe 

[GibsonGM]

Ha ha, no problem!  Ok, something IS messed up there, with those voltages.  Either damaged or wrong transistors, maybe the pinout is not correct...something off with the power supply...something like that.   But it WORKS! (?)   

There IS a time to let it go, for a while at least, and enjoy what you built!   The Si FF will be a lot easier for you, I bet!   And as you gain experience, troubleshooting will get easier. 

[Myrkky Nuoli]

Ha ha, no problem!  Ok, something IS messed up there, with those voltages.  Either damaged or wrong transistors, maybe the pinout is not correct...something off with the power supply...something like that.   But it WORKS! (?)   

There IS a time to let it go, for a while at least, and enjoy what you built!   The Si FF will be a lot easier for you, I bet!   And as you gain experience, troubleshooting will get easier. 

Yes, it works indeed. Strange as hell but it does. I think I need to get a real one to compare it to. It might have just a touch less output but it sounds very good as it is. Letting it go for now. Already did the fuzz face and also skreddy lunar module deluxe. Both worked straight up with no debugging. Gaining a lot of confidence Thinking of trying out Crunch Box and Black Arts Toneworks Pharaoh Fuzz sometine now. Taking a little break for now so I don't consume all my time soldering Feeling very positive about this forum as a newcomer and will be lurking around. Later!

[GibsonGM]

Glad to hear it!  Over time, you develop good habits like not folding all your wires into the enclosure, insulating around the battery, etc etc.  So the next builds get better than the early ones!   Eventually you have it down to an art form, and you won't have troublesome builds any more )