Memory Man Calibration?

[Scruffie]

Best guess? It was put in for bringing up the signal of weak pickups or other instruments that didn't have enough signal (line in? This isn't my bag really, Mark will know more)... cause yeah it just boosts the input signal... for more level an output boost would be more useful.

It's not a long delay pedal sadly, this was literally one of the first analog delays to hit the market after BBDs were invented so it didn't offer what say... a Deluxe Memory Man or Boss DM-2 might offer, i'm betting guys with tape delays were pretty happy with 150mS of useable time in a foot pedal.

Thanks for the description! I had read that the Blue 4 knob Deluxe sounded 'ghostly' and it intrigued me... I was considering building one up with modern v3207 or 8 chips if it had a 'unique' sound from it's lack of filtering etc.

Yeah, interestingly enough, I, too, have heard Memory Mans be described as eerie or, as you're saying, ghostly, but really this one doesn't have that vibe, to me at least. It sounds clean, clear and quite beautiful. Also, that would make sense about the boost switch. I'm using it with humbuckers so I'm sure it doesn't need more input gain. But with single coils using the boost might be beneficial.

Funnily enough again, i've heard the 'update' of this unit, the Echo Chorus with Boost is described as a clean and clear delay too, that used a single MN3005 and a bit more filtering but still no compander (EHX switched to the Panasonic chips e.g MN300X instead of SAD1024s for both longer delays in a single chip and better noise) pretty sure they whine too just a bit less from added filtering, different designers though I think. The 4 knob memory man was supposedly 'ghostly' or eerie as you've read... eerie intrigued my style.

Single coils back then were probably even weaker so yeah no surprise, most BBD pedals can distort with modern high output humbuckers, especially active, I guess it was built in 'active'.

If I find time i'll try this with 3 x 3208, could half the clock cap and get the same delay without the noise, shame there's no such thing as SAD2048s you could drop in.

What do you mean by "drop in"?

I mean direct replacement, an MN3008 (another kind of BBD that was the successor to the Reticon brand although different) has 2048 stages of delay (a max of 150mS of usable delay at best) an MN3005 has 4096 for 300mS but you can swap the two in the same board and they have the same pin out and function the same so would both work. So a SAD2048 (had it ever developed) would be nice here).

My point was only one has twice the stages so twice the delay time... but BBD output filtering is there for the clock noise so I could double the speed the clock runs at (which causes whine from its pitch) as the new 3005 has more stages than the 3008 yet keep the same amount of delay time as the MN3008s but without the noise/whine those delays would have originally offered as the clock is still out of the audible range as it's too high in pitch... slightly confusing I know, if I think of a good analogy i'll give you one

[Drewmeyer]

I mean direct replacement, an MN3008 (another kind of BBD that was the successor to the Reticon brand although different) has 2048 stages of delay (a max of 150mS of usable delay at best) an MN3005 has 4096 for 300mS but you can swap the two in the same board and they have the same pin out and function the same so would both work. So a SAD2048 (had it ever developed) would be nice here).

My point was only one has twice the stages so twice the delay time... but BBD output filtering is there for the clock noise so I could double the speed the clock runs at (which causes whine from its pitch) as the new 3005 has more stages than the 3008 yet keep the same amount of delay time as the MN3008s but without the noise/whine those delays would have originally offered as the clock is still out of the audible range as it's too high in pitch... slightly confusing I know, if I think of a good analogy i'll give you one

Oh, right of course. I didn't notice you were talking about an SAD2048 instead of the SAD1024 chips in the pedal now. Makes perfect sense now. A shame such a thing doesn't exist for sure. I assume it wouldn't be possible (or at least easy) to sub in MN3005s for the SAD chips?

[Scruffie]

I mean direct replacement, an MN3008 (another kind of BBD that was the successor to the Reticon brand although different) has 2048 stages of delay (a max of 150mS of usable delay at best) an MN3005 has 4096 for 300mS but you can swap the two in the same board and they have the same pin out and function the same so would both work. So a SAD2048 (had it ever developed) would be nice here).

My point was only one has twice the stages so twice the delay time... but BBD output filtering is there for the clock noise so I could double the speed the clock runs at (which causes whine from its pitch) as the new 3005 has more stages than the 3008 yet keep the same amount of delay time as the MN3008s but without the noise/whine those delays would have originally offered as the clock is still out of the audible range as it's too high in pitch... slightly confusing I know, if I think of a good analogy i'll give you one

Oh, right of course. I didn't notice you were talking about an SAD2048 instead of the SAD1024 chips in the pedal now. Makes perfect sense now. A shame such a thing doesn't exist for sure. I assume it wouldn't be possible (or at least easy) to sub in MN3005s for the SAD chips?

Good luck getting 3 x MN3005! Very Rare and expensive. You could sub in 3 x 3008 for double the delay time (though halfish without noise) but not a drop in by any means, be more worth building a new pedal... and hence why I was thinking of using cheap available 3208 chips to try it. But it could be done.

[Drewmeyer]

I mean direct replacement, an MN3008 (another kind of BBD that was the successor to the Reticon brand although different) has 2048 stages of delay (a max of 150mS of usable delay at best) an MN3005 has 4096 for 300mS but you can swap the two in the same board and they have the same pin out and function the same so would both work. So a SAD2048 (had it ever developed) would be nice here).

My point was only one has twice the stages so twice the delay time... but BBD output filtering is there for the clock noise so I could double the speed the clock runs at (which causes whine from its pitch) as the new 3005 has more stages than the 3008 yet keep the same amount of delay time as the MN3008s but without the noise/whine those delays would have originally offered as the clock is still out of the audible range as it's too high in pitch... slightly confusing I know, if I think of a good analogy i'll give you one

Oh, right of course. I didn't notice you were talking about an SAD2048 instead of the SAD1024 chips in the pedal now. Makes perfect sense now. A shame such a thing doesn't exist for sure. I assume it wouldn't be possible (or at least easy) to sub in MN3005s for the SAD chips?

Good luck getting 3 x MN3005! Very Rare and expensive. You could sub in 3 x 3008 for double the delay time (though halfish without noise) but not a drop in by any means, be more worth building a new pedal... and hence why I was thinking of using cheap available 3208 chips to try it. But it could be done.

Oh yeah, alright. Makes sense. Sounds like a fun idea for a future project! To kind of shift topics, I was wondering if anyone knows the value of this version of Memory Man on the used market. It seems like they are fairly rare compared to the later deluxe and stereo MMs, but it also might not be as desirable due to the short delay and noise issues. I bought it for $85 (the guy sold it as broken, but it works fine. Says he never bothered testing it, so I guess my gain) but I'd assume they're worth at least slightly more.

[Scruffie]

I mean direct replacement, an MN3008 (another kind of BBD that was the successor to the Reticon brand although different) has 2048 stages of delay (a max of 150mS of usable delay at best) an MN3005 has 4096 for 300mS but you can swap the two in the same board and they have the same pin out and function the same so would both work. So a SAD2048 (had it ever developed) would be nice here).

My point was only one has twice the stages so twice the delay time... but BBD output filtering is there for the clock noise so I could double the speed the clock runs at (which causes whine from its pitch) as the new 3005 has more stages than the 3008 yet keep the same amount of delay time as the MN3008s but without the noise/whine those delays would have originally offered as the clock is still out of the audible range as it's too high in pitch... slightly confusing I know, if I think of a good analogy i'll give you one

Oh, right of course. I didn't notice you were talking about an SAD2048 instead of the SAD1024 chips in the pedal now. Makes perfect sense now. A shame such a thing doesn't exist for sure. I assume it wouldn't be possible (or at least easy) to sub in MN3005s for the SAD chips?

Good luck getting 3 x MN3005! Very Rare and expensive. You could sub in 3 x 3008 for double the delay time (though halfish without noise) but not a drop in by any means, be more worth building a new pedal... and hence why I was thinking of using cheap available 3208 chips to try it. But it could be done.

Oh yeah, alright. Makes sense. Sounds like a fun idea for a future project! To kind of shift topics, I was wondering if anyone knows the value of this version of Memory Man on the used market. It seems like they are fairly rare compared to the later deluxe and stereo MMs, but it also might not be as desirable due to the short delay and noise issues. I bought it for $85 (the guy sold it as broken, but it works fine. Says he never bothered testing it, so I guess my gain) but I'd assume they're worth at least slightly more.

From memory of looking at ebay for gut shots a few months back, near $200 so good score! Those 3 x SAD1024 are worth $85 alone at least anyway, if not more  should get $150 no problem.

[Drewmeyer]

I mean direct replacement, an MN3008 (another kind of BBD that was the successor to the Reticon brand although different) has 2048 stages of delay (a max of 150mS of usable delay at best) an MN3005 has 4096 for 300mS but you can swap the two in the same board and they have the same pin out and function the same so would both work. So a SAD2048 (had it ever developed) would be nice here).

My point was only one has twice the stages so twice the delay time... but BBD output filtering is there for the clock noise so I could double the speed the clock runs at (which causes whine from its pitch) as the new 3005 has more stages than the 3008 yet keep the same amount of delay time as the MN3008s but without the noise/whine those delays would have originally offered as the clock is still out of the audible range as it's too high in pitch... slightly confusing I know, if I think of a good analogy i'll give you one

Oh, right of course. I didn't notice you were talking about an SAD2048 instead of the SAD1024 chips in the pedal now. Makes perfect sense now. A shame such a thing doesn't exist for sure. I assume it wouldn't be possible (or at least easy) to sub in MN3005s for the SAD chips?

Good luck getting 3 x MN3005! Very Rare and expensive. You could sub in 3 x 3008 for double the delay time (though halfish without noise) but not a drop in by any means, be more worth building a new pedal... and hence why I was thinking of using cheap available 3208 chips to try it. But it could be done.

Oh yeah, alright. Makes sense. Sounds like a fun idea for a future project! To kind of shift topics, I was wondering if anyone knows the value of this version of Memory Man on the used market. It seems like they are fairly rare compared to the later deluxe and stereo MMs, but it also might not be as desirable due to the short delay and noise issues. I bought it for $85 (the guy sold it as broken, but it works fine. Says he never bothered testing it, so I guess my gain) but I'd assume they're worth at least slightly more.

From memory of looking at ebay for gut shots a few months back, near $200 so good score! Those 3 x SAD1024 are worth $85 alone at least anyway, if not more  should get $150 no problem.

Oh wow, glad to hear it! I actually bought it planning to fix it up and resell, but was pleasantly surprised to find it worked perfectly well. And now that I've played I don't think I want to sell it anymore! But I just realized I totally lost the original point of the thread in all this fun and informative discourse. Should I or should I not try to adjust the trim pots/send it to someone to adjust them? Or is the pedal the way it is and there's not much to do about it.

[Scruffie]

I mean direct replacement, an MN3008 (another kind of BBD that was the successor to the Reticon brand although different) has 2048 stages of delay (a max of 150mS of usable delay at best) an MN3005 has 4096 for 300mS but you can swap the two in the same board and they have the same pin out and function the same so would both work. So a SAD2048 (had it ever developed) would be nice here).

My point was only one has twice the stages so twice the delay time... but BBD output filtering is there for the clock noise so I could double the speed the clock runs at (which causes whine from its pitch) as the new 3005 has more stages than the 3008 yet keep the same amount of delay time as the MN3008s but without the noise/whine those delays would have originally offered as the clock is still out of the audible range as it's too high in pitch... slightly confusing I know, if I think of a good analogy i'll give you one

Oh, right of course. I didn't notice you were talking about an SAD2048 instead of the SAD1024 chips in the pedal now. Makes perfect sense now. A shame such a thing doesn't exist for sure. I assume it wouldn't be possible (or at least easy) to sub in MN3005s for the SAD chips?

Good luck getting 3 x MN3005! Very Rare and expensive. You could sub in 3 x 3008 for double the delay time (though halfish without noise) but not a drop in by any means, be more worth building a new pedal... and hence why I was thinking of using cheap available 3208 chips to try it. But it could be done.

Oh yeah, alright. Makes sense. Sounds like a fun idea for a future project! To kind of shift topics, I was wondering if anyone knows the value of this version of Memory Man on the used market. It seems like they are fairly rare compared to the later deluxe and stereo MMs, but it also might not be as desirable due to the short delay and noise issues. I bought it for $85 (the guy sold it as broken, but it works fine. Says he never bothered testing it, so I guess my gain) but I'd assume they're worth at least slightly more.

From memory of looking at ebay for gut shots a few months back, near $200 so good score! Those 3 x SAD1024 are worth $85 alone at least anyway, if not more  should get $150 no problem.

Oh wow, glad to hear it! I actually bought it planning to fix it up and resell, but was pleasantly surprised to find it worked perfectly well. And now that I've played I don't think I want to sell it anymore! But I just realized I totally lost the original point of the thread in all this fun and informative discourse. Should I or should I not try to adjust the trim pots/send it to someone to adjust them? Or is the pedal the way it is and there's not much to do about it.

If you want to keep it and use it, it may very well worth being having it retuned for the least distortion and replacing the caps for reliability/noise unless you find it to do its job as is, in which case, who cares! But fine tuning may improve it to a point... cost $35? $50? Not sure how much guys with scopes charge! But I wouldn't tweak it your self unless you're happy to not use it or to pay one of those guys.

You can probably adjust the balance trim for less whine (if it's not already set optimally) without a scope though by your self for your set up without much harm, wont stop it working and only one trim to tweak i'd risk that my self but that's a judgement call.

Someone with a scope and set up procedure/knowledge may also be able to set up the gains optimally (EH Man or while not the designer of this, EHX's designer Howard Davis is one smart guy and works on this old stuff) that will affect some headroom/feedback levels but a good set up guy with a scope should do a decent job anyway.

Me? If I liked it, i'd leave it as is at that price unless it was integral to my sound.

[Drewmeyer]

If you want to keep it and use it, it may very well worth being having it retuned for the least distortion and replacing the caps for reliability/noise unless you find it to do its job as is, in which case, who cares! But fine tuning may improve it to a point... cost $35? $50? Not sure how much guys with scopes charge! But I wouldn't tweak it your self unless you're happy to not use it or to pay one of those guys.

You can probably adjust the balance trim for less whine (if it's not already set optimally) without a scope though by your self for your set up without much harm, wont stop it working and only one trim to tweak i'd risk that my self but that's a judgement call.

Someone with a scope and set up procedure/knowledge may also be able to set up the gains optimally (EH Man or while not the designer of this, EHX's designer Howard Davis is one smart guy and works on this old stuff) that will affect some headroom/feedback levels but a good set up guy with a scope should do a decent job anyway.

Me? If I liked it, i'd leave it as is at that price unless it was integral to my sound.

Ah yes, the balance trim. I remember you mentioned that earlier, but I never figured out to which trimpot you were referring to. Would you be able to point them out for me, so I don't mistakenly turn the wrong trim and screw the whole thing up?

[Drewmeyer]

Well I just decided to go for it and start twisting the trim pots. I don't think I really did much. It pretty much sounds the same as before. I think I eliminated some of the whine, but there's still quite a bit and the hum didn't really go away at all. So I suppose there's not much else to be done to the pedal. I like the sound, though. Especially if I keep the blend knob lower, that keeps the noise down enough. I was wondering one last thing, though. There's a resistor tied to the 1st and 2nd lug of the delay pot. What is it's purpose?

[Scruffie]

Bottom left of the board here by the 1024 is balance.


That hum will likely lessen with a recap.

[Drewmeyer]

Bottom left of the board here by the 1024 is balance.


That hum will likely lessen with a recap.

Oh cool, thanks. I messed around with that trim a little and it did actually help the hum and whine a little. On the topic of the caps, I forgot to ask earlier but do you think all the caps are original? I've not had much experience with vintage gear but I would have imagined they would look old, but the caps look shiny new.

[Scruffie]

Pretty sure those are original from some gut shots of the SAD Deluxe version I have.

Another issue with this version is that both halves of the BBD are biased by one trimmer, to get the best out the unit each should have really had its own... you could in theory add a daughterboard and use MN3008s in this though...

[Drewmeyer]

Pretty sure those are original from some gut shots of the SAD Deluxe version I have.

Alright, cool. I'll look around for some replacement caps then.

Another issue with this version is that both halves of the BBD are biased by one trimmer, to get the best out the unit each should have really had its own... you could in theory add a daughterboard and use MN3008s in this though...

Sounds like I might as well build a brand new pedal! I really want to mess around with the guts of this pedal as little as possible, in case I decide to resell.
Also, any word on my earlier question about the resistor on the delay time pot?

[Scruffie]

Pretty sure those are original from some gut shots of the SAD Deluxe version I have.

Alright, cool. I'll look around for some replacement caps then.

Another issue with this version is that both halves of the BBD are biased by one trimmer, to get the best out the unit each should have really had its own... you could in theory add a daughterboard and use MN3008s in this though...

Sounds like I might as well build a brand new pedal! I really want to mess around with the guts of this pedal as little as possible, in case I decide to resell.
Also, any word on my earlier question about the resistor on the delay time pot?

Any Caps rated over 18V should be fine, except the 2 large ones which will be 35v+

Very true shouldn't mess with something vintage, things were just spinning in my head.

2 things it could be... might be not actually across the 2 lugs and is setting the minimum delay (should be a 5k6 resistor) or it's being used to alter the delay pots resistance, they might not have had the right value on hand, seen this a few times in old EHX stuff.