Vocal stutter tremolo help

[rocinante]

Hi all.

I'm looking for some advice from the wizards here on the forum. I've decided I want to build a stutter like tremolo to use as a vocal processor (stompbox with xlr in and out).

I've built a few ea tremolos but I know that is too smooth and not stutter-y enough for what I am thinking.  I've seen mention of the tremulus before, but don't have any experience with it.

Can anyone reccomend good tremolo layouts that might work for this?

Also are there any tricks I need to look out for in using balanced xlr connections or building for vocals as opposed to guitar?

Thanks in advance!!!
Steve

[haveyouseenhim]

Burst box!


I think the pulsar tremolo is pretty choppy.

[Derringer]

Burst box!

Gristleizer too

[deadastronaut]

tempo will always be your enemy live...(unless tap tempo of course..)

if it were me i'd rig up a very crude but very effective and most  importantly 'in time' momentary cut switch attached to your mic

and stutter by hand whilst singing...... have another on/off switch in case of accidentally cutting yourself off....just thinking aloud, just my 2p.

[YouAre]

tempo will always be your enemy live...(unless tap tempo of course..)

if it were me i'd rig up a very crude but very effective and most  importantly 'in time' momentary cut switch attached to your mic

and stutter by hand whilst singing...... have another on/off switch in case of accidentally cutting yourself off....just thinking aloud, just my 2p.

Extra points if he uses a proximity plate ala Zvex and adds to the visual appeal.

[armdnrdy]

Is this the idea?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZdgsiEqXKRU

[duck_arse]

try replacing the phase shift osc in an ea trem with a square wave osc.

[wavley]

tempo will always be your enemy live...(unless tap tempo of course..)

if it were me i'd rig up a very crude but very effective and most  importantly 'in time' momentary cut switch attached to your mic

and stutter by hand whilst singing...... have another on/off switch in case of accidentally cutting yourself off....just thinking aloud, just my 2p.

I'm pretty sure there are plans on teh interwebz for a balanced mic cough button, now you too can have complex chopped up vocals like Katy Perry!

[deadastronaut]

^ yeah she's brilliant..

[rocinante]

Thanks Guys!

I was thinking more like this  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ypHZ7YTZcQ (at 1:09). 

I'm not sure i have the coordination, or hands, or feet free to do a stutter switch kind of thing. I was basically just going to set it to really fast and see how that goes???

I saw a demo for the stutter trem by forcedfireguitars or something, but cant find any schematics or anything on that?  Ill go and research the burstbox and Gristleizer now.

Not sure about katy perry, i dont think i can pull off those outfits as well as she can.... ;~

cheers

[haveyouseenhim]

Ill go and research the burstbox and Gristleizer now.

I was joking about the burst box. Save yourself the mental anguish and forget about the burst box. But like I said I think the pulsar would be perfect from what I heard on the link you posted.

[duck_arse]

aahhhh, geeze, you didn't tell him about the burst box, did you?

and what are we pulling off katy perry, and who is she?

[deadastronaut]

'' Ill go and research the burstbox''


you may be some time...

[wavley]

aahhhh, geeze, you didn't tell him about the burst box, did you?

and what are we pulling off katy perry, and who is she?

Yeah, the burst box is a secret, you don't want one of those.  (you know you want one now, do the the research)

Do yourself a favor and don't bother with any audio of Katy Perry, just do an image search.

[Derringer]

and just my $.02 from vocal FX experience

you don't need to use XLR ins/outs on your box. They'll be a pain in the butt to install along with their required phase flipping/summing circuitry

Just get a lo-z balanced to hi-z balanced xlr to 1/4 adapter to take the microphone's signal into the effect box (1/4" ins and outs on the effect box) and then run the 1/4" out of the effect into a DI box with a 1/4" in and xlr out with a ground lift.

But don't go cheap on the DI box though, I did with a PYLE and it sucks tone bad.

[rocinante]

What's involved in doing the Xlr install @derringer?  You've obviously done it before, i don't mind a bit of a hassle, especially if it eliminates a DI box from the setup. 

What sort of circuit was involved?  What sort of phase issues occur?  Sorry if these are basic questions, just trying to get my head around what exactly needs to be inside the box. 

[Derringer]

just to give an idea, go here
http://analogguru.an.ohost.de/

and scroll down to the H & K Redbox schematic. That's a DI box with an XLR out. Take a look at the circuitry around the XLR.

An XLR cable has three connectors. One pin is ground/shield and the other two have the signal but in opposite phase. When the signal reaches the XLR input of the preamp, one of the signals is flipped and combined with the other. What this does is cancel out any interference that occurred to the signal between the microphone and the preamp. So if you were going to hardwire an XLR input on a pedal, you'd need a circuit to flip the phase of one part and sum it with the other. The XLR output of your pedal would need to run the signal to one pin and a phase inverted signal to another.

I have a Rebote 2.5 delay and a Craig Anderton ring modulator in my microphone chain. Both use 1/4" ins and outs.
One of these went to the input of my FX chain


and one of these was on the output of the FX chain


but then I had an issue of some hum due to a ground loop

so then I bought a direct box with a ground lift to take the place of the output transformer
and the ground lift works well ... only issue is that the transformer or whatever other circuitry in the $19 direct box I bought sucks a lot of the low end of the signal out
so i figure I need a better DI box

[pinkjimiphoton]

my vote for vocal tremolo is definitely the kay tremolo. it's pretty choppy but i bet it would be perfect for your application.

[rocinante]

@derringer - Thanks so much for all that info.  The adapters certainly seem like the simplest way to go.  I obviously need to research a bit more and try to beat the concept into my head.  But the problem seems to be that i would have to deal with the opposite phase input from the mic, run that into the circuit, then convert it to opp phase again to run out the other side?


Thanks jimmy, ill check it out.

Cheers.

[Derringer]

But the problem seems to be that i would have to deal with the opposite phase input from the mic, run that into the circuit, then convert it to opp phase again to run out the other side?

you need to think in terms of two signals ...  I don't think either signal could really be considered the "original" or "correct" signal
the microphone will send two signals down the xlr cable. The signals are equal in content but opposite in phase.

The way that input transformer works (the one with the male XLR and male 1/4") , I'm actually not entirely sure if it combines the signals and then outputs a single signal or if it shunts one to ground and outputs the other ... I'm more inclined to think that it does flip one of the signals and combines them in phase. The other function of that transformer is to convert the low impedance signal coming from the microphone into a hi-impedance signal like a guitar signal.

The output transformer (the one with the female XLR and 1/4") does the opposite .. it takes a high impedance signal and coverts it into two low-impedance and out of phase signals.