Panasonic 2SC828's from Hong Kong on eBay - Any good?

[PorkyPrimeCut]

The cheapest place I can get these transistors appears to be Hong Kong.

Is there any reason for me to be cautious about this? Has anyone by chance bought from this seller?
There are 11 negative feedback comments in the last 6 months but hundreds more positives.

I could get them from a reliable source in the UK but they'd be £12 for 6 instead of £4.30 for 20!!

[kingswayguitar]

don't rely on my single bit of advice, wait for others as well, but i have ordered from there with success. not those exact transistors though. with all online purchases i try to make some kind of email contact during the transaction. not sure if this helps but i've never had a complete disaster yet.

good luck

-Ben

[slacker]

What magic do those transistors have?  What are you using them for, you can probably substitute something cheaper and easier to get hold of.

[PorkyPrimeCut]

That's a very good question, and one I've been hoping to get answered (although maybe an actual thread on the subject might help).

They're for a SuperFuzz pedal I built. The kit had 6 x 2N3904's but an older one I had (that's now out of action) had these 2SC828's & I liked it more (I think).
I've read plenty of stuff on both and I gather they're relatively similar but I'd still like to compare the 2 using my own ears.

I'm also interested in hearing if there are any others I could use, or if I can mix & match, instead of using 6 of the same.

[Kipper4]

At 20 pence each the most your going to lose is a fiver!!!!!
I've bought loads of stuff from HK with no problems yet.
good luck with your experiment
Rich

[armdnrdy]

The 828s depicted in the link are "R" hfe classification.

What classification were in the 828s in the SuperFuzz that you liked?

Also, I've used the very similar 2SC945s in builds that have called for 828s with good success.

945s are a bit easier to get....Tayda stocks the "P" hfe class.

[Mark Hammer]

There are many transistors that will likely substitute for C828s in a satisfactory manner.  Just be aware that the pinout of japanese transistors like the 2SC828 will not be the same as many of the 2N series.

[PorkyPrimeCut]

The 828s depicted in the link are "R" hfe classification.

What classification were in the 828s in the SuperFuzz that you liked?

I just checked. They have R 801 printed under 828.
What exactly does that mean? All I know is that they were NOS Panasonic tarnsistors.

As far as I can tell the circuits (BYOC - old, and PoodlePedalParts - new) share exactly the same components.
I don't know enough about circuitry to tell if anything else is different but they're both supposed to be "clones".

[armdnrdy]

Those 828s are "R" classification.

From the 828 data sheet:



As Mark stated there are many transistors that would do the job well but.....
if you need a tranny with the same pin out...the C945P has a very similar hfe as the "R"

[PorkyPrimeCut]

OK, thanks.

So, is the 801 part of no real relevance?

[digi2t]

Original Superfuzz circuits used the Q gain range. I bought a batch of 100 of these R types off EBay, and they're fine, but you have to sort through them to find gains that are in the zone of the Q range. As a matter of fact, I used the lowest gains that I could find in the batch, in the 180 to 190 range. I supplied a set of these to Jimi a while back for his Superfuzz, and he loved them.

Quite honestly, these are not better than a set of 2N2222's for a Superfuzz. Having tried both, I lean towards the 2N2222 as a better transistor for the Superfuzz. Actually, I would go with the plastic PN2222, rather than the can. The cans tend to be noisier. I found that lower gain transistors produce better sounding Superfuzz. Spending some extra time to match the two transistors in the octave section really pays. Using a balancing trimmer is best.

The pinouts are different though. The 2SC's are ECB, while the 2N's are EBC. Nonetheless, if you're building on a kit board, you can bend the legs just so, and the 2N's will work just fine.

As always, socket, and test.

[PorkyPrimeCut]

Great info!

I'll shop around a bit & see what comes up.

[LucifersTrip]

I've gotta mention this again, since it wasn't brought up yet.

Only 2 of the 6 transistors on the schematic on univox's site are 828's
http://www.univox.org/pics/schematics/superfuzz.gif

you also have voltages from an excellent sounding original (Fu Manchu)
http://www.diystompboxes.com/smfforum/index.php?topic=64068.0

so you can work backwards and figure out what hfe's are needed to hit those voltages

http://www.diystompboxes.com/smfforum/index.php?topic=102093.msg903687#msg903687

edit:
forgot to mention that you'll also see 536's in some orange/blue ones. i'm not a historian, so I don't know the details. for instance, this was recently on eBay for $900


http://www.ebay.com/itm/50PCS-2SC536-C536-TO-92-Transistor-NEW-/250933536539?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3a6ccde71b

[PorkyPrimeCut]

I've gotta mention this again, since it wasn't brought up yet.

Only 2 of the 6 transistors on the schematic on univox's site are 828's
http://www.univox.org/pics/schematics/superfuzz.gif

you also have voltages from an excellent sounding original (Fu Manchu)
http://www.diystompboxes.com/smfforum/index.php?topic=64068.0

so you can work backwards and figure out what hfe's are needed to hit those voltages

http://www.diystompboxes.com/smfforum/index.php?topic=102093.msg903687#msg903687

edit:
forgot to mention that you'll also see 536's in some orange/blue ones. i'm not a historian, so I don't know the details. for instance, this was recently on eBay for $900


http://www.ebay.com/itm/50PCS-2SC536-C536-TO-92-Transistor-NEW-/250933536539?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3a6ccde71b

Interesting, thanks.

It looks as though I'll have to find equivalent parts for the other 4 transistors (2SC539's) as I can't find a sales listing for any.
However, I just found another thread on this forum that states BC109's as decent replacements. I think I have some of them already.

Any opinion on this?

I understand that I should probably set up an HFE/Gain tester & work through them systematically.
I just don't want to splurge money on 3 or 4 different sets of transistors & be left with a load of spares I may never use.

While we're at it (and this might be daft question so I apologise in advance)...
My previous Superfuzz build (BYOC) seemed to have more sustain. Is therre a simple mod to increase sustain on my new one?

This probably shows how relatively inexperienced I am when it comes to electronics. I can solder & design enclosures but the science is baffling!

[pinkjimiphoton]

i ordered 50 of these,, they worked great.

[PorkyPrimeCut]

So, as it's Christmas I've decided to take a punt on a few sets after all.

There's every chance I'll be building a couple of these to sell in future so it's good to be stocked up.

I ordered -

10 x PN2222A's
20 x 2SC828's
10 x BC109's

Plus, I think I might try out some 2SC536's as I've heard they're great. A little on the pricey side though.

[PorkyPrimeCut]

I've gotta mention this again, since it wasn't brought up yet.

Only 2 of the 6 transistors on the schematic on univox's site are 828's
http://www.univox.org/pics/schematics/superfuzz.gif

Here's the schematic for the PCB I bought....



Am I right in thinking it's Q2 & Q3 that are the 2SC828's?

[LucifersTrip]

Plus, I think I might try out some 2SC536's as I've heard they're great. A little on the pricey side though.

http://www.futurlec.com/cgi-bin/search/qty_price.cgi?part_no=2SC536

Am I right in thinking it's Q2 & Q3 that are the 2SC828's?

yes:
http://www.univox.org/pics/schematics/superfuzz.gif