bend yr own boxes 101

[GibsonGM]

Hey Duck, I never asked - what are you cutting all that PC aluminum and steel with?  Shears?  Or do you have something electric hooked up?   
Shears really screw up my edges.

I have an electric miter saw (chop saw) that I think I might get a carbide blade for, to do this stuff with.   One would have to be careful, though, because if it kicked you're back to the "wear gloves!" issues...

[duck_arse]

if I'm in a swearing mood, I'll use the frame hacksaw. it ALWAYS, without fail, goes wandering (hopefully away from my marked line) mid cut, and the frame/nut bang on the bench/clamps/etc's. if I'm in a lot of cutting mood, I'll use the jigsaw w/ metal cutting blade and a dribble of oil. gloves, clamps and earmuffs either method.

aircraft snips are the worst things, they leave a serrated razor edge, just to be perverse. I can only ever cut one squeeze straight, then it's all bending and all over the place mess.

I've spotted a couple of wrinkles in the 2xU box since, also some ideas. I thought I'd go and bend up a bottom for the wedge, but my jaws were mm's too short. spent the day wading through junk instead ..... another ten thousand words ....

[duck_arse]

part 4a metal sides/unders

>> if you doing the metal unders --

cutting the right sized plank will be much easier if you make a template, and that means more cardboard. tip yr bend on side and draw around the inside. cut out, fit/jiggle/trim so it's accurate. draw the measures for the flat of the bend, then add the end flaps by drawing around the template you just made. cut the whole thing out, fit/joggle/trim, and there's the shape of your next plank.



shown in the above is an over u-bend and templates for a flat and a wedge under u-bend and the cut/cleaned/marked planks, tested for fit and marked to indicate corrections needed. shown above right is a method of marking a necessary trim, by running a marker along the edge at ~45 degrees, leaving a very thin line on the panel top, and colour along the edge-to-trimm. now you have an indicator of how much and where you have removed with yr files.

I don't have a planned use for these bends, so I haven't marked/piloted the holes for the fixings needed. it would be best to plan and pilot-drill these while still flat.

as the under u-bend fits inside the over u-bend, they can't be bent on the same jig. not unless you've cut the bending block up the middle, and are long-bolting through, with a jaw attached each side, using spacers and shims to get the correct width across the jaws. you'll need to measure each end-to-jaw with a vernier to get your panel in the appropriate spot as the guide will now be one end unfixed.

I recommend against using anything for your jaws except plain and flat angle. don't recess it into the bending block, either top or sides, just square the faces and sit the angle on top, w/ long countersunk screws. if the angle is radiused, clear the edges of the bending block so it fits flat. the bender showing is a new set of jaws cut from an old hard drive, one of which moved during the bend, which is why I advise against.

shown is the plank aligned on the bender ready to be clamped in place with the clamping block, and the bent in progress. use a vernier to check the plank ends to jaw distances before you start with the mallet.

bending time means favourite bock of wood and mallet time. same as before, hold the bashing block flat against the plank as shown with some down-bending pressure, and give "thump". avoid twanging and clanging, make sure you are bending equally right across the plank with each whack. turn your block and continue the bend until it is square-ish, then do the other side the same way.



both flat tops and wedges are done the same way; you want the sides ending up parallel, and perpendicular to the bottom plate. expect the longer sides of the under bend to present more resistance while bending.

once the bashing subsides, remove the clamps/clamping block and check your work, using your pane of glass to check for square/twist. check the bends are straight, even and not bulging. tap them up or flatten the flats on your anvil if you think necessary. how much panel fixing you can do will depend on what you have to bash the bends on, and your choice of finish. an etched or painted box will need better looking/fitting bends than one cloth covered or w/ wooden fill-in plates. the shown bend needed some further remedial hammer work ....



the under u-bend now shows correction indicators, stress marks, and the colours of my new markers. check for fit with the over u-bend, mark and make corrections needed, file the corners to fit, sand all your file marks away, and the bending is finished. make sure the 2 parts slide together smoothly and don't forget to allow for paint thickness. the closer you can make the edge fits, the more stress the box will withstand.

the under and over are shown fitted together and while not quite 100%, are certainly good enough for a first (and last on this jig) bend. the purple line was added to the edge for some contrast, the insistent red arrows are indicating something that has since been attended to. the persuasion marks left in the metal by the hammer, indicated by flaked paint, rule out a painted finish, but will not show once end-panels and floor covering are fitted.

flat topped or wedged, u-bend boxes will need some method of attaching u-over to u-under, with at least four well placed screws through your u-bends. if you have a drill press, cut some lengths of aluminium bar and either rivet or drill/tap/screw to one bend, then drill/tap through the other bend. you can cover the sides and rivets with thin wooden panels mounting under the overhang, around 1.3mm deep each side on the bend shown.

or at least until we get some engineering advice to the contrary, **rivet your tapped-end bars to flanged plates and mount the jacks and footswitch through them, halving the number of holes through yr case. if you don't intend allowing for battery power you can put right angle end-bends on the jax/switch plates, and use self-tappers through the u-bends. the choice is yours, use whatever you have or can reasonably construct.

when using rivets - allow for those mandrels! - or countersink that side, so the mandrel sits lower in the bar. measure, mark, check, drill pilot-size holes thru the lower bend for the screws. fit the lower to the upper, and mark the bar-ends with the pilot drill so you can drill and tap the bars. drill the screw holes, drill and tap the bars, fit the whole thing together and check for fit.



shown is the upper with the flanges mounted via 3mm screws, and the lower drilled for the pinning screws. check your fit, sliding the two halves together. screw the pinning screws into the bars, and now you can drill the full-sized holes (one at a time, from the smaller to the larger) through both upper and flange at the same time, maintaining at least a little accuracy in fit and alignment. don't forget to clamp carefully while drilling.

keep checking for fit, filing and reaming the holes to correct as you step through your drills to the final size. shown is what we will call "the finished" drilling, both the upper and the flanges, ready for some parts.

now you can measure/cut/dress/finish/fit your wooden side covers. you can either decide to hold the panels with the bend-pinning screws, or drill clearance holes for their heads, and simply silicon/glue or double-sided tape the panels on. cover the unsightly join with whatever you use as a baseplate covering.



shown is the box with parts fitted and the wooden plates, which can be and are a little uneven thickness wise, and the panels fitting the box, so you'll know what to look for. you can dress the edges of the wood as you like, fit flush, stand proud, whatever suits.

as seen in the photos, there is a gap between the floor and the underside of the lower bend of a similar size to the side gaps. I usually glue something like flooring vinyl and thin rubber under my boxes, which will fill the under space (and cover the baseplate bang nasties) and spread the downwards force exerted on the footswitch, through the long under-bend sides and the large floor contact area of the baseplate.

**now that I have a box completed to this stage, I have found that if the under gap is not filled, all the footswitch force is transmitted to the floor through the upper-bend "toe" upright, which then splays outwards at the bend. this is undesirable.

to prevent the box squat-splaying under pressure, fill the underspace or pin the upper to the lower at the toe end. you might run bars riveted to the long under-sides and drill/tap through the toe/jax bends. or use an east-west bar riveted across the toe plate, screwed thru the sides. the wooden cheeks should remain clear of floor, as they are not really suitable as load bearing parts. astute viewers will notice the plates have not been attached in the photos.


and that's the end of the flat-top u-bend with metal under. the wedged over will have to wait for its under until I can build another bending jig. part 4b follows, how to do wood.

[markeebee]

I've just spent the last hour or so reading through this thread and making mental pictures of all the processes. I can't remember the last time I had such an enjoyable hour (except for that thing with the Latvian girl) (and that was nothing like an hour).

Cheers, D-A, you are a true star.

[GibsonGM]

Another great one, DA!  Thanks again ) Enjoying learning about your process, and how you devise interesting ways to overcome adversity.   Looking forward to the one about wood. 

I missed your reply re. what you use to cut this type of metal...yes, I'd go with the hacksaw, I think.  Slower, but more precise. I use the angle grinder for auto body work, but that would probably take off one of my fingers!

[duck_arse]

gibson, about that wood. at the moment I am furiously devising advesitities, just to have something to overcome. I feel the need to do everything twice. it's hard just keeping up with what's going wrong without then having to type it all up as well .....

[duck_arse]

 
-------------- part 4 sides/unders ----------------
-------------- part 4 B = wood ----------------

if you doing the wood --

every time I attempt wood for pedals, I run into problems with power toool motor overhangs, too small or uneven baseplates, guide clamping, accurate/repeatable depth settings, etc. so I made a router bench suited to long narrow planks of wood, and a shoe extension.

the first "bench" I put together was for a circular saw doing wood for flat-topped U-bends. it had a cross-channel and a moveable support so the wood could be turned for the short cross cuts. while the saw needed a masonite foot and only cuts 3mm per pass, leaving tilted cuts needing clean-up, it is a perfectly viable method, possibly the preferred method for flat topped U's. if you have/access to a drop/mitre/docking/cut-off saw with slide, separate the individual cheeks, plan the cut order to account for the angles, and it would be only a few minutes work to knock out a couple of clean and accurate sets of panels, flat or wedge.

shown is what used to be a chipboard/pressboard/melamine desk, is now a router table. the deck is 25mm thick chipboard, 700 x 460mm, with pressboard runners 16mm thick, 60mm wide at the front and 190mm wide the rear, with a channel of 110mm between. the runners are just countersunk wood-screwed to the deck (sand all the melamine edges, or there will be blood), the deck long-bolted to the under-supporting trestle. there is 2 sets of three holes for 3/16" bolts drilled through the rear runner and deck. one set is 305mm from the front edge, the other 320mm.

for straight cutting there is the slide, shown detailed below, a length of wood 890 x 40 x 9mm high glued to a 120mm wide bit 'o masonite, rough face upper, which has 3 holes for 3/16" bolts ~70mm from the front edge and slotted to 16mm long. the front edge is planed and sanded after the gluing.



also shown is the router extension shoe, a snug fit hole cut in 10mm ply 190 x 280mm, offset by 10mm towards the front. the ply is stuck to another bit masonite with a round hole cutout. all four sides are planed and sanded, and the router is held in check with metal clamping plates.

although the slide only travels 16 or so millimeters, the full width of the channel can still be guided because of the second set of slide-bolt holes, and the router/shoe can be rotated to utilise the shoe offset. all sliding/running surfaces are regularly lubed by rubbing with a dry bar of sunlight/laundry/yellow soap.

detailed above right is a method to set the cut depth fairly repeatably and accurately, saw or router. the plastic stop provided in this case by Bosch is a joke for depth setting purposes, and is only of use as a positive stop. if you are wanting a route of 6mm depth, for instance, find something like perspex or masonite that is 6mm thick. put the router on/over the workpiece and jack the baseplate/shoe up with your calibrated thickness. then push the router down until the bit meets the face of the workpiece and set the depth stop. remove the jacks and route away. but check your work.

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to cut wooden side cheeks for either brake or U-bends, whether flat-topped, wedged or slopers:

your step 2 will be to mark the cutting pattern on your wood. here are a few ways to do it:

- mark the wood with pencil. you won't be able to see it to route it, so you can use a white paint-marker to rough outline on the wood before accurate pencil marking. you'll be left with white all over the insides, down in the grain of the wood. hard to remove unless you really like sanding.

- glue some white paper to the wood, then trace the pattern with pencil. easy. perhaps use gum instead of pva glue. you might have an inked stamp pad you could press the bend against, then just "stamp" the paper with the outline.

- cut some templates from white paper or card. you'll need one for each side, trimmed to accurate fit, marked with all the references you need to orient them correctly, and glue them to your wood.

but your first step is to cut a reference edge in your wood at least 5mm wide. this forms the channel the baseplate sits in, and the ledge it mounts on. if you are doing a bend with returns, you will be screwing into/through it, so the "on" needs to be wide enough for both your selected screws and drilling inaccuracies. a U-bend does not screw through this cut so it can be a little less deep.

you need to clamp the piece in the channel in some manner, you could probably use double sided tape, but it might get messy. as I'm doing four sides for brake-bent slope fronts, the angles form some dead-areas that won't need any routing, so I put some small countersinks through into the deck. mark the screw positions clearly.


always ALWAYS know where your screws are, and how deep they are with reference to your routing depth. MARK THEM GOOD! don't be tempted to route around a screw head, take it out, put it back later. plan what you are going to do, how you are going to position your cuts, where and how you will clamp the workpiece. you can always erase your rough sketches before outline marking time.


route the ref-edge to about half the depth of yr sides, the length of the piece. the pedal baseplate (which we will call "the floor" from now on) will later sit flush to the ref-edge.

now take yr piece and mark the cutting patterns. jamb a straight edge against the ref-edge, that's what it's there for, hold the bend against the straight edge as shown and mark around the insides. mark the bend name/number, L or R, up/down, toe/jax, circles and arrows with a paragraph about each on the back, the day of the week, whatever you need be able to orientate things with other things at a glance, as seen below. if you've cut templates, align them with the ref-edge and glue to the wood.



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the slide can be used for cutting flat-topped bends, either brake or U's, but as we aren't cutting any flats in this instance, the slide and its bolts can be removed. fix your piece in the channel, set yr route depth**, and start routing. your best move is to cut a clearance channel all around and wide of your outline, clear all the carp from the cut, then come back and do some dressing. you will need to follow all the standard router rules for bit-rotation and cut-direction. don't forget those rebates for the returns/brackets.

don't go too close to your marked lines before you have checked the cut quality. one of the quirks of using a router, you can't see the edge being cut looking from one side, and you can't see the line to cut to looking from the other side.

I'm starting with a 3mm single-flute bit, which is as excited*** a tool as you would ever want spinning at that speed. even cutting at only 5mm deep, there's lots of smoke and very little cut material cleared by the bit. and if you think you might just poke your finger in to press the paper back down on the wood mid-route, it's time for a rest.

the side marked "Q" shown top below has been dressed with a second cut, the "P" side has only its clearance channel cut. after making the first cut, stop the machine, vacuum all the junk, and go over the raggedy edge of the paper with your thumbnail, to push it back over the edge and expose the pencil line. check how the cut relates to your marked line.

remember that it is much easier to sand away excess than it is to add make-up material. ask me how I know this****. don't even try to get the cuts to fit with the router, it cuts more than you think and you will end up with a mess of fixing to do. test fit after each cut, and if the bend fits on the wood, STOP CUTTING! note that I've removed the screw from the middle while routing this area.



** make sure the ledge you are routing is deep enough to screw your pinning screws into without the wood splitting, whichever bend you are using. it is much, MUCH better to start with panels that are thick enough for your screws but otherwise too thick, than it is to end up with ledges too thin to screw. it is easier to route/file/gouge away extra material between the screws than it is to add material where the screws are going. ask me how I know this.

visible in images below is some split-prevention wood, glued at the pinning-screw points. they will be sanded back flatter in the completed pedal. get an offcut from the piece you are working with and drill some pilots. do some screw tests; test your pilot size is correct, your screws don't snap their heads, and the wood doesn't split. soap the screw threads. better to find out now then when the finished box wants its finished side panels fitted.

*** it is a very good idea to get right in close and see what your router has done to the wood after you've cut the clearance channel. make sure now that it isn't chewing and gouging the wood, because it will make a real mess of your cut real quick if you don't pay attention.

**** I already knew this. check what your bits do to the wood early and often. I nearly always find or cause some reason to bog my cuts with wood fill, to repair or improve fit.

now is the time to switch to a larger (6.3mm) bit to clear some more junk. how much you remove now depends on the shape and height above the plane of the finished top panel you intend the wood to sit. get in and buzz wide of your clearance cut, as shown in the two bottom views above. do it in two passes, one to shift the material, the other to dress the cut somewhat. clear this material now to save some sanding and to provide a saw guide of sorts.

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there is nothing much more you can do with the router now. cut the cheeks into individual parts with your favourite saw (soap the blade), then follow the edge of your route, cutting off the excess material, leaving the rough ready for shaping and fitting. as the paper will only get in your way from here, you may as well remove it as best you can, and re-mark your parts accordingly.

sandpaper and glass time. make sure the sandpaper doesn't gouge cut-lines in the wood when using the edge of the paper on the edge of the pane of glass. work on the ledge part first. clean the rough cuts flat, then knock the corners off if they are square: the bend will always hang-up here when you test fit. test your fit, you want the metal to sit flat on the wood ledge with as great a surface area as you can get.

now you can clean the upright part, we'll call it the parapet for now. watch the dress where the ledge meets the parapet, it needs to be real good and square so the metal edge fits against the upright and flat to the ledge, and sanding always seems to leave a curving face. get a nice sharp wood chisel or a knife/lino tool and get right into the corner, so both surfaces end up flat and square up to their meeting point. also make sure the bend sits flat along its length against the parapet, and doesn't "rock" against any high points along the lines of cut.

one way to find the high-points is to run a marker pen around the inside edge of the bend, where you want it to sit on wood. then give a fit with the wood, wiggle the parts against each other, especially where they hang-up. remove the metal and look for colour on the wood, indicating high spots. don't go crazy sanding all your marked points at once, do only those on the same plane. as you get a better, closer fit, the colour patches should get larger. this method will also show where planes meet with a curve instead of a flat.

clean your cuts a bit nicer once the bend fits the wood, and remember to allow paint clearance. knock off all the sharp/rough edges around the outsides of the cut shape, but don't start taking material from the parapet at this point unless you know the exact thickness of your chosen panel-finish. front panels, knob heights, vinyl/card spacers etc will all need to be taken into account. use the baseplate to check the returns sit flush with the top of the ref-edge to provide a good, flat mounting plane for same.



shown the bend sitting on a smoothed cheek, with one rough and two unshaped cheeks. also shown is bend drilled, cheeks bogged, fitted and drilled, with anti-split woods and the extra holes in the baseplate.

.........

[duck_arse]

...............

brake bends with returns specific --

doing bends with returns a number of years ago showed up some limitations that made me switch to the simpler U-bend. doing the brake bends has reminded me of them all over again. the major problem is the returns themselves, as they block access to the internal volume at both ends. long side panels need to be pinned effectively over and under, so they don't splay under pressure, and to hold the box together. the returns are useful in this regard as we can pin the under at both toe and jax.

long returns with a small battery hatch near the middle gives you plenty of flange to pin the wood through, under tension to hold the desired box-shape and nearer to the middle, and you only need two screws for the possibly hinged battery cover. but tall parts like footswitches and pots need to be angled to reach their mounting holes, the case height and return length limiting the angle available. everything needs to come either through the battery-sized hole in the middle, or through the sides before the wood is installed. and what screws for the battery cover? wood screws won't last many do/undo cycles, and metal threads need something threadable to screw into.

one method I've used is to route a channel 3mm wide inside the cheeks and offset towards the under, and press-fit an aluminium bar. then drill through the panel and the wood to mark holes in the bar which can then be tapped 3mm. this means looong screws and thick ledges, but if you are using very dense wood like jarrah it will also take some "tap" and provide extra support. the battery hatch cover screws also screw into the bar, which is why we offset it downwards.

short returns/long baseplate allow more drop-in space for tall parts. it is preferable not to have the floor under the strain of pinning screws, but there is now limited return length for both pinning and tapping holes for the floor screws. how to sit the baseplate flush on its wood ledge and the returns with the pinning-screw heads in the way?

as shown (above), I've drilled the floor to clear the pinning-screw heads, and drilled the 3mm clearance holes inboard. now the pinning screws stick up through the floor, but are covered by whatever it is you use to "foot" the floor itself, like flooring vinyl, and the floor sits flush/flat/unloaded as first intended. the vinyl is cut around the floor-screw heads so they then sit below its surface.



shown above to help you recognise a slope-topped brake bend box with wooden side cheeks ready for covering and finishing. the top pinning and the baseplate screws are fitted, the clearance holes have not yet been drilled in the floor. (also visible my new duck stamp.)

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U-bends specific --

.... so use a U-bend instead, with a bracket at either end thick enough to drill/tap, mounting inside the toe/jax bends and flush to the floor channel, and pin through the end bends into the wood. all the parts dropping in before the brackets are fitted, the floor then mounts with 3mm screws unstressed and flush. rebates need to be cut/gouged in the wood ends for the brackets with a router/dremel/chisel/sharp knife. the jacks pass through the bracket at that end.

the bracket at the jax end has two added benefits not readily obvious. it can pack a jack or dc socket that sticks out too far for your liking, and it can provide unseen anti-rotate pip holes if you use box jacks. the brackets for a wedge may end up needing odd bend-angles if you plan on toe/jax bends off-square.

ensure the brackets sit flush with the ends and the floor. my next step is usually to bog the rebates with wood filler, and chisel them back flat for best-fit, checking for high spots and flush. make sure your bend is still the shape and size you want, it can/will go off-square and mess all your fittings.

the "1" cheeks shown were cut from a skirting board, and here in aust. that would mean tasmanian oak. whatever it is, it is very light and soft, more pulp than grain, very like balsa. I've cut the bracket rebates with a snap blade and cleaned-up with a chisel. (there is so much ledge all around, you'd be silly not to use it for leverage on yr fave chisel.)



shown above for an optical compressor, the drilled bend "Y", undrilled brackets and base and rebateless side panels. bend "1" is shown drilled, with drilled and tapped brackets and fitted baseplate, and rebated, bogged, high-spotted, fitted and drilled side panels. above bottom shows detail of two completed pedals, with bracket, battery and internal covers.

it can be seen in the detail that I cut the ledges wider than my ref-edge/floor channels. the reason for this is lost to the mists of time, but it explains the oddly waisted top flange of the mounting brackets.

shown below to help you recognise a flat-topped U-bend box with most of its screws fitted and slightly shaped wooden side cheeks, ready for covering and finishing, even though I have nothing to put in it.



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finishing the woods for both type bends --

an elastic band or 2 is very useful from here on, just to hold things together.

as your pinning holes were piloted before bending, all you need to do now is assemble the (brackets and) cheeks and clamp together carefully/lightly while you drill, through the pilot and with the pilot, both the bracket and the wood. if you are planning on thick covering like toy fur, it is advisable to use a spacer of some sort while drilling through yr pilots to prevent the screws later going sideways, stripping or snapping under pressure. you'll otherwise need to revisit your cheek fits.

so I can at least attempt drilling straight and square, and due to the lack of error room in the ledge dimension, I prefer to only mark the position in the wood with the drill, then disassemble and hand-drill to screw depth. drill clearance holes in both the brackets and the case and don't forget the holes for the top panel screws. drill the pinning screw holes to your preferred clearance size, as suits your screws and wood type.

I've cut a set of screws to about half length, and so I don't have to mess with screw threading later when I'm working with a "live" panel/case, my next step is to soap the threads and screw the wood/metal/brackets together. check for problems. as I've already marked/drilled the pilot holes for the floor screws in the floor, I now fit/clamp the floor and drill pilots through the brackets. disassemble, drill clearance in the floor, and drill/tap the bracket.

if your jack-mounting holes are 3mm clearance, you can drill through the bend into the bracket, and then screw them together. this will prevent things moving around while you fiddle with fitting the floor. once you have the floor holes drilled and the brackets tapped, you can fit the floor, remove the 3mm screws, and attend to the jack-mount holes.

the pinning screws are for holding the wood in place and the bend in shape, and not for stressing. by making the metal to wood contact area under the top panel as flat, and therefore large, as you can, the footswitching stresses are dissipated through more of the wood more efficiently. how you finish your baseplate will determine how these stresses are transmitted to the floor.

you can finish the base-panel so the box sits on the floor on the wooden unders of the cheeks. put some screws in now to hold the box together and sand on glass so the unders sit flat. how you stop the finished from sliding around the floor is then up to you. another method is to cover the base-panel with something thick but pliant, like flooring vinyl. sand the cheek bottoms flat and to just below the height of the vinyl, using some scrap material to get the height correct. then when you step on the gas, the finished pedal will squat slightly as the vinyl compresses, until the wood contacts the floor.

you can now finish your sanding/shaping on the side panels and make your left/right/under/overs matched and even. don't forget panel finishing thickness allowances. take it apart again, and you are finished, ready for etch/paint/cover/assemble.

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have I left any thing out? anything not explained/understood clearly? so now you know how you have no excuses, get bending! if I get to see just one someone's bent case, it will have all been worth while. part the next will be on my own peculiar method of covering a box.

[Kipper4]

Excellant stuff.
I love your ideas.
thanks mate

[GibsonGM]

Good stuff, DA!  Always appreciate reading your very thorough writeups!   I might have to break out my old router, and kit of bits, and see what I can come up with! 

This could have been done in a very complex and frustrating way - I enjoy seeing how you overcome that and find an easier way for the DIY to get good results without $1,000 in equipment!   

[duck_arse]

I never said it wasn't frustrating. many hours of staring has gone into bending and woods. and all those photos!

I should have made a note about noise. I've made a number of mainly fuzzes in these cases, and have so far not had any excess noise problems. I haven't yet done a dr boogie though. anyone worried about noise, do what most of us do, build it, then worry. screened cable would be the best place to start, if you still have noise probs, you might need to "foil" the insides of your woods.

[Mustachio]

Very awesome info and technics Duck! Love all the info and pictorials. The router table jig set up is really cool.