My First Build - Noob Advice Required about components.

[steveyraff]

If you have the bypass wired as it is showed, you should have the LED wired to the LED space on the bottom right side of the PCB. Not sure what other part you are talking about.

Everything needs to be grounded to the power jack. People say star grounding is the best way to do it, which is essentially having all ground points connect together at one spot, ideally the power jack. I didn't look toooo hard, but I believe what you need to be grounded are the input and output jacks and the PCB. So three wires going to the negative lug of the power jack, or connecting by the easiest way as your enclosure is laid out.

Hmmm,

I'll try!

So I need to take wires from my neg DC lug to the input and output jacks, and to the PCB board?

Can you tell me a little more specifically, where on the Jacks and PCB board I am connecting these wires please?

All good - Don't have the holes drilled on the enclosure yet, but sort of temporarily clipped the jacks on to the inside edge of the enclosure and it did the trick for test purposes. One problem remains. I'm getting NO SIGNAL when I but the switch to its OFF position.

[Kipper4]

Take a wire from the DC Jack neg to the Input Jack Sleeve and all the other ground wires are go from the input sleeve then to
1 the out put jack sleeve
2the PCB gorund
etc
Your star ground (google it) point is then the input jack sleeve (which is grounded to the metal enclosure )

Edit; most of the advice I recieved said that having just one ground wire to the pcb is a good way. in other words dont put the star ground on the pcb
It works for me.

[steveyraff]

Uploaded a little first test drive video to show some of my friends on Facebook who were interested in how it turned out.

Having a lot of fun so far. Tomorrow I just have to figure out why it doesn't work when not turned on.

Heres the video - sorry, VERY low quality for now.
http://s597.photobucket.com/user/steveyraff/media/BatDrive_zps6d9c61ef.mp4.html

[mth5044]

Uploaded a little first test drive video to show some of my friends on Facebook who were interested in how it turned out.

Having a lot of fun so far. Tomorrow I just have to figure out why it doesn't work when not turned on.

Heres the video - sorry, VERY low quality for now.
http://s597.photobucket.com/user/steveyraff/media/BatDrive_zps6d9c61ef.mp4.html

So you are not getting dry signal, but you are hearing the effect when it is on. That's progress! That leaves a few things that could have gone wrong. Due to the wiring, we know the input buffer is working as the signal is always routed through there on or off. We know the effect itself is working and we know that the output section is probably working.

That seems like something is wrong with how you wired up the switch... Can you take a picture of your switch and the connections to the PCB and jacks? Please take it from the top, not blurry - use the macro setting on your camera if it has one.

[duck_arse]

Ok - Resistors and Caps all done!

Today is Transistors then Diodes.

1: Heres my first question today... the guide states Transistors 1 to 6 to all be BC549. I have all the sockets in for these, but I do NOT have 6 BC549's. I only have one of those. Then I have two BC547B and three BC547's.

Its still 6 transistors in total. I just don't know how major the sound difference is going to be. These will still work on in the circuit though, right?

2: Also, my 5th Diode is only for polarity protection (or so I've read). It asks for a 1N5401. On most other builds I see a 1N4001. I dont have a 1N5401 but I do have lots of 1N4001, and a very large, beastly looking 1N5822. Is it ok to just use a 1N4001 here? I guess I am just using 9v batteries for now and maybe later a standard UK boss style mains power supply.

............

(I'll leave the switch.)

remember when I asked if you'd put yr trans in the dmm yet? what I meant was for you to test/observe their relative hFE readings. it comes up A LOT hereabouts. as it happens, there are 4 types of BC5xx device, the A, the B, the C and the ( ). a, b, and c are sorted for their hfe, A being the lowest range. the ( ) as in ungraded, types, have not been sorted, and could fall anywhere between the max and min quoted in the specs. and in the case of BC54x and BC55x, there is again three parts in the range (actually a few more), the 5x7, the 5x8 and the 5x9.

the 7's as I remember were the highest voltage rating, but not very high, and not by much. the 9's were the lowest noise parts, for where you wanted to amplify small signals, for example. and the bc548 was about the most ordinary transistor you could get yr hands on.

so, test measur yr trans. put the highest hFE or the bc549 in the buffer position, and then in order as the gain figures drop. or just chuck em on the floor, and put them in as you pick them up. come back, tell us if you could hear a diff.

as for diodes, the 1n4001 will pass 1 amp current, the 5401 will pass 3 amps. use the 400x in pedals, the 540x in power amp power supplies. if you are using a series protection diode, schottky's are often specified, as they have a lower forward voltage drop. a 3 amp diode in the shunt config, as here, will probably detroy your power supply in a fault situation, but it will protect your pedal. that is the protection diode argument, you'll see that here as well.

that'll do from me.

[steveyraff]

Very interesting replies. Thank you both. This pedal build has been a real steep learning curve for me - but theres no way I'd have taken any of it in and understood it had it not be throughout the course of doing an actual build. So its all been HIGHLY educational. And to think I've only been working on this for a week or two. Its a lot of info to take in but I am glad I got this far and hopefully I can take all this knowledge and learning on to my next build and in turn have to plague the board much less with endless questions about each step !!

I'll research the points you brought up about the various trans types duck_arse.

As for the problem I have with the pedal at the moment - with it being valentines day, and with being locked away in the solitary confinement of my mancave for this last week or two, I was otherwise engaged and didn't get working any more on the circuit in order to begin troubleshooting.

I did get one more little test drive of it though. What I noticed is; it sounds great with all pots turned up to the MAX. Once I lower ANY of them, I get an overall drop in output volume and the amount of drive or clipping seems to decrease a lot. This happens with no matter which one of the Sustain, Tone or Volume pots I manipulate. I don't really understand this yet - but could this in some way be related to the fact that the pedal appears to not pass any signal when its in its OFF position? Like the way a blend or mix control would work, except I don't have any dry signal on tap? I may be way off base in my thinking here.

In regard to what Jdansti said about it still being possible to wire the pedal for True Bypass - I'd be interested in being walked through how to do this.

Thanks as ever! Getting excitingly close to the finish line!
Steve.

[steveyraff]

If anyone can help me out with the queries in my last post it would be great.

Here are some close up shots that were requested of the wiring etc as it currently sits.

The pots are temporary until Alpha pots arrive.

[Jdansti]

>I did get one more little test drive of it though. What I noticed is; it sounds great with all pots turned up to the MAX. Once I lower ANY of them, I get an overall drop in output volume and the amount of drive or clipping seems to decrease a lot. This happens with no matter which one of the Sustain, Tone or Volume pots I manipulate. I don't really understand this yet - but could this in some way be related to the fact that the pedal appears to not pass any signal when its in its OFF position? Like the way a blend or mix control would work, except I don't have any dry signal on tap? I may be way off base in my thinking here.

I'm not sure yet what's going on here.  Maybe one of the other gents can shed some light on it.  In general, the sustain and tone pot will decrease volume.  There's usually a balancing act going on.  If you start out at 50% sustain and 100% volume and then increase the sustain to 100%, you should have to decrease the volume pot to keep the volume at the same level as it was before.  I don't know if that's what you're seeing.  I do notice that there may not be a ground wire connected to the sleeve of your output jack.  Maybe it's in the shadows, but that could cause trouble. 


>In regard to what Jdansti said about it still being possible to wire the pedal for True Bypass - I'd be interested in being walked through how to do this.

These are the wiring schemes that I use on all of my pedals:

Battery OR DC jack only with board input grounded during bypass:
http://www.generalguitargadgets.com/pdf/ggg_sw_3pdt_tb_gi_bat.pdf

Battery AND DC jack with board input grounded during bypass:
http://www.generalguitargadgets.com/pdf/ggg_sw_3pdt_tb_gi_dcj.pdf

You'll see a free-floating LED resistor in the above drawings, but in your case, the resistor resides on your board.

Here's a marked up copy of your board with true bypass switching.  You'll have to put a couple of jumpers in as shown.  Duck or Matt, would you please verify this drawing?
http://i1160.photobucket.com/albums/q485/jdansti/PagesfromDarkside_ver15-2.jpg

BTW-True bypass doesn't always mean better.  Pete Cornish doesn't like true bypass and relies on his buffers in the pedals to overcome loss due to cabling to, from, and on your pedal board.

Finally, I would not leave the battery connected to the DC jack the way you have it.  You don't have a switching DC jack.  You're asking for trouble if you have a battery attached and plug an adapter in at the same time.  If you do that, you can kiss your pedal goodbye.   

[steveyraff]

>In regard to what Jdansti said about it still being possible to wire the pedal for True Bypass - I'd be interested in being walked through how to do this.

These are the wiring schemes that I use on all of my pedals:

Battery OR DC jack only with board input grounded during bypass:
http://www.generalguitargadgets.com/pdf/ggg_sw_3pdt_tb_gi_bat.pdf

Battery AND DC jack with board input grounded during bypass:
http://www.generalguitargadgets.com/pdf/ggg_sw_3pdt_tb_gi_dcj.pdf

You'll see a free-floating LED resistor in the above drawings, but in your case, the resistor resides on your board.

Here's a marked up copy of your board with true bypass switching.  You'll have to put a couple of jumpers in as shown.  Duck or Matt, would you please verify this drawing?
http://i1160.photobucket.com/albums/q485/jdansti/PagesfromDarkside_ver15-2.jpg

BTW-True bypass doesn't always mean better.  Pete Cornish doesn't like true bypass and relies on his buffers in the pedals to overcome loss due to cabling to, from, and on your pedal board.

Finally, I would not leave the battery connected to the DC jack the way you have it.  You don't have a switching DC jack.  You're asking for trouble if you have a battery attached and plug an adapter in at the same time.  If you do that, you can kiss your pedal goodbye.   

Great info - thanks. I run a recording studio and its been very busy lately so I won't get looking at the circuit again for a few days. As I am a true novice, I just copied the diagram verbatim with little understanding of it. Thanks for highlighting the DC issue. I'd have probably fried my pedal without realising. You've provided me with info inregards to wiring the pedal for Battery OR DC and also for Battery AND DC power. Can you explain the pros and cons of either? I presumed a Battery is only needed if there is no DC power, and vice versa. Although, I'd like my pedal to be safe if someone accidentally put a battery AND DC in at the same time.

Thanks for the help.

[Jdansti]

Adapter vs battery is a matter of preference. One option for using a battery with your type of DC jack is to solder a DC plug to the battery snap and use the battery externally in place of the adapter. Watch your polarity if you do this.

You most likely haven't fried the pedal if you plugged in the adapter while the battery was connected. The damage would occur after the battery overheats, leaks, and possibly catches fire.

[steveyraff]

Adapter vs battery is a matter of preference. One option for using a battery with your type of DC jack is to solder a DC plug to the battery snap and use the battery externally in place of the adapter. Watch your polarity if you do this.

You most likely haven't fried the pedal if you plugged in the adapter while the battery was connected. The damage would occur after the battery overheats, leaks, and possibly catches fire.

Yea, I'd just like to use DC power - but have the Battery snap internally incase I ever need Battery as backup. Although it'd be nice to know that if the battery and DC were used together it wouldn't fry immediately.

By the way, if anyone can figure out why I am getting now signal when the pedal is off it'd be great. Really don't know where to start when it comes to troubleshooting this issue. And as I say, I don't know it's related or not, but when any of the 3 pots are turns down the over-all output and gain drops leaving a weak dry signal. Its strange.

Thanks all!

[Jdansti]

Can you give us more information on "getting signal when the pedal is off"?  Do you mean when the pedal is bypassed? Is the signal dry or wet?  Does it sound clear and full volume, or affected in some way? Etc...

It's hard to say at this time whether this is related to your volume issues.

[steveyraff]

Can you give us more information on "getting signal when the pedal is off"?  Do you mean when the pedal is bypassed? Is the signal dry or wet?  Does it sound clear and full volume, or affected in some way? Etc...

It's hard to say at this time whether this is related to your volume issues.

I'm sorry. I know I am being difficult to work with here. I mean when the petal is switched in its off position, there is silence. When I press the switch to engage the pedal, there is full signal with overdrive.

Hope this makes more sense?

[Jdansti]

Got it- no clean signal in bypass.

I'll study the schematic and layout again and see if I can come up with reasons why the this happening. You might want to draw out your board and off board components on a sheet of paper and draw the wiring connections exactly as they are. Then compare your drawing to the layout and see if you spot any differences.

[Jdansti]

I've traced out the signal paths. The path when the effect is active is this:



The bypass path is this:



I would check continuity along the bypass path. Place the switch in bypass mode, disconnect power, place one lead on the input jack tip, and use your other lead to check the path shown in the marked up layout labeled "Bypass". You may be losing the signal somewhere along that path.

If that check turns out fine, then you're shorted to ground somewhere along the bypass path. Check for continuity between the input tip and ground while in bypass mode. If you have continuity, you're going to have to examine the bypass path to figure out where it's shorted.  I don't think your problem is on the board because there is no path through the board that is exclusive to the bypass path.

One final thing.  Did you confirm that your output jack sleeve is grounded?

[steveyraff]

I've traced out the signal paths. The path when the effect is active is this:

I would check continuity along the bypass path. Place the switch in bypass mode, disconnect power, place one lead on the input jack tip, and use your other lead to check the path shown in the marked up layout labeled "Bypass". You may be losing the signal somewhere along that path.

If that check turns out fine, then you're shorted to ground somewhere along the bypass path. Check for continuity between the input tip and ground while in bypass mode. If you have continuity, you're going to have to examine the bypass path to figure out where it's shorted.  I don't think your problem is on the board because there is no path through the board that is exclusive to the bypass path.

One final thing.  Did you confirm that your output jack sleeve is grounded?

Hey - thanks so much for this!

Jeez, you guys really do go to great lengths to help out others around here! If anything, your signal traced diagrams help me understand the circuit. I'm still getting my head around everything and I'd been wondering which section of the circuit acts as the buffer - I can see this much more clearly now.

Here comes a stupid alert - so apologies in advanced for making such a silly slip up. It's embarrassing to say what the problem turned out to be! I think MOST of the issue was actually in the little practice amp I have set up for testing the pedal. Its an old solid state Fender Deluxe 112. The problem with this amp is that somewhere between 0 and 1 on the volume control, the amps output goes from silent to extremely loud. It's very sensitive in that tiny first increment.

Turns out, I WAS getting clean signal in bypass. It was just way lower, so low in comparison to the pedals engaged signal, that it couldnt be heard at the low volume I had my amp set at. Does this make sense? I hope I am explaining myself clearly.

There is still a bit of an issue I am not entirely happy with now. The balance between bypass signal and engaged signal seems very off balanced. Maybe its just the way the pedal behaves? It seems like I've almost too much volume on tap via the pedals volume control - its VERY hot. To match the clean signal in bypass, with the pedals engaged signal I have to put the volume control a little less than a quarter of the way up. (This is with sustain and tone controls up full).

On the other hand, maybe its how the pedal works. When I turn the sustain control down, I start losing a lot of volume, so maybe it is expected that you are supposed to make up for that volume loss with the pedals volume control. Possibly the strangest characteristic to me, is that the Tone control also seems to greatly affect both overdrive amount and volume.

Again, maybe this is all normal, and i am supposed to just use the pedals volume control to even out any output loss caused with lower Sustain settings etc.

Thoughts??

[duck_arse]

is it possible that you have a linear, or "B" taper pot in the volume spot? it should be log to give a smooth volume increase with rotation. this circuit looks basically like most of a big muff to me, so it should behave somewhat similarly. the sustain pot will cut the signal to following stages to almost 0, so it will need to be made up to some extent.

and have you added the ground wire on the out jack?

[steveyraff]

is it possible that you have a linear, or "B" taper pot in the volume spot? it should be log to give a smooth volume increase with rotation. this circuit looks basically like most of a big muff to me, so it should behave somewhat similarly. the sustain pot will cut the signal to following stages to almost 0, so it will need to be made up to some extent.

and have you added the ground wire on the out jack?

Not yet - I had a cancellation in the studio today so I am going to go back to the pedal and ground the out jack. Also, my alpha pots arrived in the post yesterday. I have a large assortment. I was gave the ones I have at the moments to tie me over temporarily so I could test the pedal. Correct values as listed, but unsure if these ones are log or linear. I now have a linear B pot I can put on the volume to make sure though. I guess this is fully working and its just the way the pedal behaves.

Today I also want to look at my switch wiring again. Sounds fine to my ears despite not being True Bypass, but I am worried about this issue John brought up in regards to the battery. I will be using this on DC power, but would like an internal battery snap for backup. Also would like the peace of mind that if I accidentally had battery and DC power running together it wouldn't instantly damage something.

I have cut my PCB to fit into a 1590B box, but its now apparent it definitely wont all fit in there alongside the jacks, switch etc. I need to buy a 1590BB and get it drilled up. I have been creating some graphics in GIMP to put on to it with waterslide decal paper.

[steveyraff]

Upon further testing - the pedal's volume control is definitely WAY too hot. I mean, it would definitely damage the amp if you have the amplifier at stage volume then accidentally put the pedal on with the pedal's controls up full.

Anyone know the best way around this problem? I like the amount of overdrive its capable of, but the max volume is scary!

[bluebunny]

it would definitely damage the amp

Hmmm... not too likely.  Don't confuse "damage the amp" with "seriously hurt your ears"!  

Edit: Seriously, check your component values.  It's easy to mistake some resistor colours.  You can find yellow that looks like orange, orange that looks like red, red that looks like brown, ...  Makes a 10:1 difference.