My First Build - Noob Advice Required about components.

[steveyraff]

Well, another lesson learnt.

I was testing the pedal out on a little practice amp I rarely use, with an old guitar in my bedroom that I don't play often. It was throwing me off a lot.

I went to the effort of setting up my live rig - my good PRS and my Orange amp. Much, much better. The volume isn't as much of an issue as I'd thought. The tone is a little dark, even with all the mods I did to make it much brighter - but from what I've read, thats just the way this pedal is.

I also A/B'd the bypass signal with the signal I get going straight from guitar to amp, and its pretty much identical - despite the pedal not being True Bypass - so I guess its down to a well designed buffer section. I'm not as worried now about making it true bypass. I still might though.

I can't think of anything else now before boxing. Except the one issue of battery/DC power. I think if I was trying to fit it into a regular standard 1590 B box, I'd go for DC Power only. But since it looks like this will require a bigger 1590BB - I'll probably have enough room in there for a battery too. Haven't done my research yet to figure out how to make it safe for battery/DC at once if done accidentally.

[Jdansti]

Glad you got it all worked out!  We often forget to check all of the things that we should check first when troubleshooting-the guitar, the cables, the amp, power, etc.

I don't know if you've seen this, but this link shows the schematic which might help you understand the buffer and switching arrangement. There's also a drilling template for a BB box.
http://download1463.mediafire.com/8upvfmn8l5fg/a8ii16j0i2wsdrs/Darkside_ver1.5.pdf

Re DC power, you'll need a jack like the one shown below. Stay with plastic to avoid shorting your power supply. Here's a good link that explains how to do it:
http://www.beavisaudio.com/techpages/PedalPower/




Good luck boxing it up. Beware that working pedals often stop working after they're in the box, but magically start working again when removed.

[bluebunny]

Haven't done my research yet to figure out how to make it safe for battery/DC at once if done accidentally.

Use one of these, Steve:



Then wire it up like this:

 (c/o Beavis)

Inserting the DC jack cuts the battery connection.

Edit: John got there first!  Must be good advice!   

[Jdansti]

Btw- if you've socketed the diodes, try a couple of 3mm LEDs in D1 and D2 and 1N4148s for D3 and D4. Granted, it won't sound the same as the Cornish version, but I used this configuration on a similar build and I like it better than the Ge diodes as shown on the original scheme.

If you've found a couple of diode configurations you like and you're  really feeling adventurous, you can make the diodes selectable with switches. You can use two SPDT switches as shown below or just one. You can also use rotary switches if you want even more options. The diodes shown below are just examples. Try 1N400x or any other silicon diode if you don't have any 1N4148s.




EDIT:  I forgot to mention that if you do the off-board diode switching, you eliminate the diodes from the PCB and run the wires from the off-board diode and switch wires to the points on the PCB where the diodes should go.

[duck_arse]

there is a way t work your dualing power sources.

to circuit (+)
  |
  |------------------|<|-------    (+) from external supply
            |
            |
            |----------|<|------   (+) from internal battery

do they look like 1N400x's? the two diodes form an or-gate, with the highest voltage winning, and powering the circuit. the external would need to be slightly higher than the newest batttery to work, but it could be a solution.

and hurrah! another working pedal.

[Jdansti]

^Cool!  I learned something!

OT: Coincidentally we we're taking about dynamical analogies on the recent "old book" thread and I just realized an analogy between your diode scheme and one that we use at work for backup gas pressure.

If you need a backup gas supply for some operation, you can use two compressed gas sources with a regulator on each and plumb the output of each regulator together. You set one regulator at a slightly higher pressure than the other. Now the gas flows only from the regulator at the higher setting until its gas supply becomes lower than the regulator setting of the lower regulator. When this happens, the lower regulator takes over automatically, delivering gas from the second source.

[steveyraff]

there is a way t work your dualing power sources.

to circuit (+)
 |
 |------------------|<|-------    (+) from external supply
           |
           |
           |----------|<|------   (+) from internal battery

do they look like 1N400x's? the two diodes form an or-gate, with the highest voltage winning, and powering the circuit. the external would need to be slightly higher than the newest batttery to work, but it could be a solution.

and hurrah! another working pedal.

I'm sorry, through shear ignorance, I don't really understand this. I have one 1n400x in the position I believe is related to my power supply protection.

I thought John and Bluebunny's previous posts solved my problem? I read the more detailed description of how it works with the Beavis Audio link John kindly supplied. I am guessing if I wire it up like that, the power from the battery automatically disconnects when I insert the DC power supply.

One thing that slightly confuses me - I've been buying all my parts from Doctor Tweak so far and it seems brilliant, but why does he only supply DC sockets with two lugs instead of 3 ?

I'll not getting finishing this build until next week with my increased work load - but one thing I would really like to know. Before I ask, I know I could save you all the bother and research this myself, but if anyone even knows a useful link to point me in the right direction, it would sure save me the time. Its a question about safety when working with DC power on self pedal builds. The thought instantly scares me a little. I can only presume in my ignorant mind, that it may not be as dangerous as I would suspect as the adaptor on the common boss style power supply regulates the voltage going into the pedal to a safe 9v, removing my risk of frying myself when poking around in a pedal connected to my 13amp wall socket ??

I am loving my pedal build so far n all - but I don't want death to be a risk lol.

Thanks guys.

Edit - by the way John. Since seeing your sketch up of Diode switching abilities, I've checked out a few examples online and love the idea. But maybe I'll leave it for a future build when I feel more confident - thanks!

[Jdansti]

Duck was just giving you another option that would work with your 2 lug DC jack. Diodes only allow current to flow in one direction (generally), so the adapter wouldn't be trying to charge the battery.  Sounds like you're in the UK, so maybe someone can give you a good source of parts over there. A lot of people (including me) order from Tayda in China or somewhere over in the east. They're pretty good for 99% of what they sell.

Regarding safety, it's good that you're thinking of that. You're pretty safe as long as you're dealing with 9V batteries and the low voltage end of adapters. The adapter manufacturer has ready taken care of the dangerous mains voltage side of things. Just don't mess with mains voltages. There's more danger of frying components on your PCB due to incorrect voltages, AC instead of DC, or reverse polarity than frying yourself.

[bluebunny]

I thought John and Bluebunny's previous posts solved my problem? I read the more detailed description of how it works with the Beavis Audio link John kindly supplied. I am guessing if I wire it up like that, the power from the battery automatically disconnects when I insert the DC power supply.

Yep, exactly so.

One thing that slightly confuses me - I've been buying all my parts from Doctor Tweak so far and it seems brilliant, but why does he only supply DC sockets with two lugs instead of 3 ?

Steve's a top bloke.  If you ask nicely, he would probably try to add items to his stock list if he sees a demand.  (He has in the past.)  Rapid (see previous link) are also good for most stuff; and Bitsbox.

[steveyraff]

Heres one for y'all. Although I'm not back working with my pedal yet - I was on a lunch break at the studio and couldn't resist a quick jam on it.

I was testing how well it responds to rolling back the volume pot on the guitar.

I noticed I started to get a nasty octaver effect that made chords sound horrible. I had all my pedals pots up full, but with the guitar's volume pot down by 3/4's so that it was giving a cleaner sound. It's definitely not useable like that.

I think I read about this happening some other pedals overdrive pedal builds. Can someone clue me in on possible problems and troubleshooting for when I have the time ??

Many thanks,
Steve.

[PRR]

> a backup gas supply for some operation

Similar but not quite the same. Except the nature of a "gas regulator" makes it a one-way valve for many situations.

Say you have 125 PSI gas from the street, but sometimes it goes-out. You have a 100 PSI bottle for reserve. You can't stand (or won't be bothered) to manually cut-over.

If you plumb in direct parallel, the street-gas fills your bottle, maybe excessively. If no blow, then when the street gas goes out your bottle carries your load AND all the other loads on the street.

(You are soldering jewelry with a wisp of gas, next door the pizza place's massive oven is gulping gas, you do NOT want them getting your reserve gas.)

With one-way valves, your tank won't be filled from the street, and the street won't be back-fed from your tank.

The pressures (natural or regulated) do matter. Duck's plan is fine as long as the external supply voltage is a bit higher than the battery voltage. Try that with a 9V battery and a 6V supply, the battery will carry the load until it drains to 6V. (Which is why you set your pressure regulators so the prime supply is higher than the reserve supply by enough to overcome reg stiction.)

[steveyraff]

Any ideas on my octaver problem guys?

[Jdansti]

This is only a guess, but assuming everything has been built correctly, if you're using all Ge diodes, I could see this happening. Since you socketed the clipping diodes, it would be a simple test to replace the Ges with LEDs or silicon diodes such as 1N914, 1N4148, or 1N400x and see if you get the same result.

[steveyraff]

This is only a guess, but assuming everything has been built correctly, if you're using all Ge diodes, I could see this happening. Since you socketed the clipping diodes, it would be a simple test to replace the Ges with LEDs or silicon diodes such as 1N914, 1N4148, or 1N400x and see if you get the same result.

All BAT41's - 2 in each clipping stage. I thought that wouldnt be a problem. Won't get trying a different combo until later, but it disappoints me as I really liked the sound I was getting with all BAT41's and I had planned on keeping them all in. 

[Jdansti]

The BAT41s might be fine. It sounds like you had it sounding better at some point in the past, so maybe something happened while you were working on it. Are you using your PRS and Orange?

[steveyraff]

The BAT41s might be fine. It sounds like you had it sounding better at some point in the past, so maybe something happened while you were working on it. Are you using your PRS and Orange?

I think it still sounds as good as ever it did - and i haven't moved it on my desk - or changed any gear. The problem is that I never tried it with the volume on my guitar rolled back before. Only then do I notice this octave effect creeping in. I will upload a video of the problem when I get the time. I have to do sound at the theatre all day tomorrow so maybe Friday or Saturday.

Sorry - I haven't had much time to get working on it properly lately.

[steveyraff]

Can't seem to find out what this octave effect is or where it comes from.

Hey remember you guys told me to ground the out jack? On most veros, it shows where to connect on the board for ground. I'm still a total noob and using a PCB here so I am not sure where I am going to and from exactly when soldering on a grounding wire to the out jack. Can someone please fill me in?

[bluebunny]

Using a "star" grounding arrangement would be usual.  So you pick a point - often the input jack's ground lug - and bring all the ground connections to that point.  So your PCB's "GND" would connect there.  And so would your output jack's ground lug.  And your DC power jack's negative terminal.

[steveyraff]

Using a "star" grounding arrangement would be usual.  So you pick a point - often the input jack's ground lug - and bring all the ground connections to that point.  So your PCB's "GND" would connect there.  And so would your output jack's ground lug.  And your DC power jack's negative terminal.

So - grounding my out jack would mean taking a wire from the output jacks ground lug to a point marked GND on my PCB? Well, on my PCB there is no where marked GND so I am confused where I am supposed to be soldering this to?

[mth5044]

You're right, there is no pad marked ground, which is just another aspect that makes this project more confusing.

The ground point on your PCB is S9. You will not run a wire from there to the output jack as you said. As bluebunny said, a star ground will connect all the ground points together. So, if you use your input jack, connected to the sleeve will be the power supply ground, the PCB ground, the output jack ground and if there is a ground on the bypass switch, that as well.