My First Build - Noob Advice Required about components.

[steveyraff]

Which schematic did you use for the g2 ?
And what size input cap did you use? This can make a huge difference to the overall tone of a pedal.

How do I identify the input cap? If you say C1 I will kick myself, as it and the Sustain Pot mod are the only two suggested which I did not carry out! I'm guessing with it being located beside the input it is C1??   I used the schematic on the last page; 'Single Side for Etching': http://www.madbeanpedals.com/projects/Darkside/docs/Darkside_ver.2.pdf

[Kipper4]

The input buffers input decoupling cap is C1
And the fx input buffer decoupling cap is C5

[steveyraff]

The input buffers input decoupling cap is C1
And the fx input buffer decoupling cap is C5

Dammit! Back to the soldering iron I go then...

Thanks. I'll get the hang of this eventually. :sigh:

[mth5044]

I would imagine you want to fuss with C5. If you play with C1, it will impact both the effected and bypassed signal.

[steveyraff]

I would imagine you want to fuss with C5. If you play with C1, it will impact both the effected and bypassed signal.

I figured - as it is not a true bypass pedal and the bypass signal actually goes through the buffer, right? The buffer sounds nice and clean and natural, so I'll leave it.

I will double check what I have done to C5 so far if anything. The other cap mods didn't seem to do much. I really just wanted to tighten up the low end over drive. I tried a lot of transistors and diodes and it didn't solve it. I am sticking with BAT41's as I found their tone most pleasant for the clipping sections.

Thanks again.

[Kipper4]

Suggested mods on the PDF
See middle of page 3 (mods) if you find it a bit bassy etc

[Kipper4]

What Myth said +1

[steveyraff]

Suggested mods on the PDF
See middle of page 3 (mods) if you find it a bit bassy etc

I've already done them all except C1, C5 and the Sustain Pot mod. All other suggested cap mods are done with little to no difference.

[steveyraff]

Looking over the pedal today. So it turns out I DID do the C5 mod. It really doesn't make much difference.

Anyway - my problem is not with how dark it is really. As stated earlier, its more to do with how loose and farty the low end overdrive sounds. If it had tighter bottom end it'd be just dandy.

I might try one of the only remaining mods - the cap between the 3&2 lugs of the gain pot.

Speaking of Pots. I am sure this is a very amateurish question - but can someone please explain to me why my pots seem to be working the wrong way around? Turning the pots CCW seems to increase volume, gain etc. Is this something easily fixed, have I just done something awesomely stupid?

Thanks.

[Mustachio]

You know the way you describe the problems with the boost makes me think you have a wrong value resistor , I'd double check em all maybe take voltage on the transistor and post em.

As for the pot working backwards, Switch the wires on the 2 outside lugs . So lug 1 move to 3 and 3 move to 1 leave the center and it will work the right way around.

[Jdansti]

As for the low end farts, since you have sockets for your diodes. If you have some silicon diodes such as 1n400x, 1n4148, or 1n914, try those in place of your current diodes and see if if still sounds farty.

I'd still take Jim's advice and check the resistor.

[steveyraff]

Thanks guys. I'm now on my second build of this pedal. The first build was my sort of prototyping build - so everything on there is socketed. This second build is all soldered straight in.

I know that the resistors of both builds are all 100% correct.

On the first socketed build, I swapped out the BAT41's with various other diodes. I was expecting a much bigger difference than it turned out to make. Nothing very noticeable.

The transistors suggested were BC549's. I used BC549B's as I couldn't find anything else. Would this make THAT much of a difference?

Also - perhaps this farty loose sound is just how the low end response behaves on this pedal? I thought it was something I could amend but maybe its just a characteristic of the pedals sound?

[duck_arse]

wire sizing - get yr straded, strip some insulation off. now count the strands. and the diameter of each strand? this gives you "the size", as in 7/0.023. it's been thirty something years since I've used an imperial diameter, so don't ask me what a real one might be. I looks in my jaycar cat and see they are listing (metric sized) 13/0.12 as their "hook-up" wire. 20A mains is listed as "7/0.67".

the stuff frum printer cables is seven strand, some small diameter.

as for your pot problems, I thort we'd identified ccw. when you "turn down the volume", you turn it counter-clockwise, whether the shaft is pointing to or away from you.

[steveyraff]

wire sizing - get yr straded, strip some insulation off. now count the strands. and the diameter of each strand? this gives you "the size", as in 7/0.023. it's been thirty something years since I've used an imperial diameter, so don't ask me what a real one might be. I looks in my jaycar cat and see they are listing (metric sized) 13/0.12 as their "hook-up" wire. 20A mains is listed as "7/0.67".

the stuff frum printer cables is seven strand, some small diameter.

as for your pot problems, I thort we'd identified ccw. when you "turn down the volume", you turn it counter-clockwise, whether the shaft is pointing to or away from you.

Got some 7 strand - much better.

Yea, we did identify CCW, but in my dumbassery I obviously still @#$%ed something up. I assumed full CCW would be Lug 1. Obviously, this assumption would have been correct, but I didn't notice the PCB diagram labelled them as 3, 2, 1 on the board. So to make that work, I'd have had to wire the pots in facing away from me - which is just that bit more awkward as they aren't sitting flat on their backs then.

Good times!  

So asides from that, with every anti-bass Mod now carried out (except for the different Sustain Pot and, C1), I guess this pedal will always just naturally have a loose, farty low end overdrive. I still like it a lot, as long as I stick to the bridge pickup with the Tone control fully open on the pedal.

Anyways - the only issue that still remains, on both of these I made, is the slight octave/pitch offset sound when using high gain settings with the guitars volume control rolled back. I don't understand how this would happen on two versions I made of the pedal.

[mth5044]

Maybe it's the nature of the pedal? There are tons and tons and literally probably a ton of different drive pedals out there. Some of them are different - perhaps this one (even though it was complicated) is not for you!

[Jdansti]

You might like the Scuba Muff by JMKPCBs. It's basically Big Muff Diver with a switch to select a different set of clipping diodes. I've built two of them and I really like the wide variety of distortion/fuzz I get from it. It also has a switch that cuts out one set of clipping diodes which makes it sound more Tube Screamer-ish. The nice thing is for $10 you get a really nice prefabbed board.  I could get spoiled to using JMK's boards. Another thing, JMK (Jacob) is on the forum. He's helped me with troubleshooting and is very friendly.

Here's the link to the Scuba Muff.
http://jmkpcbs.com/product/scuba-muff/

[steveyraff]

Matt - from my research, it IS the nature of this pedal. In fact, if anything, people have commented on the irony of doing all these mods to make it less dark and muddy, when thats sort of the point and feature of this pedal.

You might like the Scuba Muff by JMKPCBs. It's basically Big Muff Diver with a switch to select a different set of clipping diodes. I've built two of them and I really like the wide variety of distortion/fuzz I get from it. It also has a switch that cuts out one set of clipping diodes which makes it sound more Tube Screamer-ish. The nice thing is for $10 you get a really nice prefabbed board.  I could get spoiled to using JMK's boards. Another thing, JMK (Jacob) is on the forum. He's helped me with troubleshooting and is very friendly.

Here's the link to the Scuba Muff.
http://jmkpcbs.com/product/scuba-muff/

This sounds good! Very cool. I am not sure what I am after. I think I liked this pedal because it was a challenge, it was a little complex, but unlike a lot of pedals I'd researched, it was complex yet straight forward. For example, a lot of other complex overdrive builds I looked into starting with had discussions about JFETS and IC chips that needed to be measured and matched, biased and trimmed etc. As of now, I know nothing about all of this. I will get into that later I am sure.  I guess I just liked the idea of a reasonable challenge!

With this in mind, I like being able to mod, being able to experiment with Diodes, caps, trans, pots etc - have a pedal I can sort of call my own in a way. For this reason I am not mad into the idea of going for a prefab board for my next project. I'm probably just getting ahead of myself - I already want to go straight to the tweaking and customising without perfecting straight copies. John, I've kept in mind the tip you showed me on this thread about the diode selector switch to add into any pedal I make - I definitely want to try this sometime soon. Although I was a little put off after socketing the diodes on this pedal and finding surprisingly little difference between them. Still, maybe in another build it'd be really cool!

I tried the Super Hard On but it came out sounding NOTHING like any of the video demos I listened to. And I am very meticulous and double checked the whole build. Really expected it to be much more straight forward. Its very dark and a little non-responsive.

I was contemplating a Timmy or Zen Drive. They've been demonstrated with some cool mods and additions.

So far, I have a sense of great accomplishment - couldn't have done it without you guys. Ive designed some nice graphics for my enclosure and I look forward to showing you guys the work you all helped me with.

When it is boxed etc - I will use my recording studio (www.outlandstudios.co.uk) to make a proper studio recorded demo of its sounds, and upload it to youtube for you all to check out.

I gave up on the weird pitch, octave issue I mentioned earlier. It came through on a 3RD BUILD! Lol. Its a minor quirk that will never surface at stage volumes anyway.

[Jdansti]

Glad you're having a good time with it and feeling accomplished. I on the other hand am having a rough time with Deadastronaut's Abductor Delay. All I get a lot of squeals.

Regarding the diodes sounding the same, there are some discussions on the forum about the turn on voltage of different diodes and how that affects the clipping. There are also ways to use different transistors as clipping components. Some searching on the forum and the web will yield a lot of information.

[steveyraff]

Just thinking about the final touches.

I'm putting my graphics on to water slide decal paper and applying them to the enclosure - then sealing it all with clear top coat.

I was following John Coopers excellent guide here: http://youtu.be/e2X_HL-4F90

Now, he used a Polyacrylic clear top coat in Satin. Most other people, I've seen using Polyurethane clear coat in Gloss.

I guess the question I have is, when it comes to Polyurethane does it matter much on if it is Gloss or Satin, and also, if it is solvent based, will that damage the decal in anyway or is it safe to use? I noticed that John Coopers was Water Based.

I had my eye on this Polyurethane, Solvent Based, Gloss varnish: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/British-made-Marine-quality-polyurethane-varnish-/201049412063?pt=UK_DIY_Material_Paint_Varnish_MJ&hash=item2ecf7a91df

[Kipper4]

Beware of marine grade. I've come across it in the past thinking it would be idea for a wooden project that I wanted to be absolutely water proof.
However it was water proof but it didn't go off, go hard like expected it too. Since it's intended for boats.
It just ended up a gooey mess.
Just saying beware.