emthree mini synthy

Started by pinkjimiphoton, January 18, 2014, 09:33:08 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

pinkjimiphoton

hi guys, was surfing around and came across this thing...
did a little research, and saw rg reccomended replacing the saj110 chip with a 4024cmos chip.

i have tried to find a legible data sheet/pinout of the saj110, and had no luck at all... so i tried comparing stuff to the best of my admittedly limited
ability (the glaucoma is kickin' these days making looking at stuff hard sometimes) between data sheets, and came up with this:



i wrote in the pins of the 4024 i believe would correspond to the same chips on the original, but can't be sure cuz i can't read the pinout on any of the pix or pdf's i've found.

i'm assuming that pin one would be used as input, pin 14 appears to be v+ and pin 7 v-.

i know virtually nothing of this stuff... i'm assuming that means i need a split supply? or just feed whatever voltage (i believe 9 v should be fine) to pin 14, and ground pin 7?

since this is used as a division kinda circuit, am i right to assume each output is for a different pitch?  does it matter which pair of outputs i choose for this?

it looks like it might be fun... i cropped the original, and filled in the values so it would be easier to read.

remember (off topic) that when you save a pic, don't save it as a jpg.... every time you save a jpg as a jpg, it loses more data, and becomes harder to see... eventually they will get so compressed there's nothing left... i prefer .png files myself.... anything that's not a lossy format...

thanks guys... appreciate the advice!
  • SUPPORTER
"When the power of love overcomes the love of power the world will know peace."
Slava Ukraini!
"try whacking the bejesus outta it and see if it works again"....
~Jack Darr

Güero

Curing the infection one bullet at a time.

pinkjimiphoton

thanks bro, but i still have no idea what i'm looking at, i've never encountered this kind of chip yet... don't even really know where to start!!
your help is appreciated tho, very much!

i'm assuming (dangerous, me doing that) then that it would need to be one of the single pairs, say f6 maybe, using pin 5 and 9? input thru 1 pin 1?

i've gotta convert it to the 4024 anyways, not gonna pay 15 bux for a chip i'll (probably ) blow up. ;)
  • SUPPORTER
"When the power of love overcomes the love of power the world will know peace."
Slava Ukraini!
"try whacking the bejesus outta it and see if it works again"....
~Jack Darr

MaxPower

#3
http://www.datasheet4u.com/datasheet/S/A/J/SAJ110_ITTSemiconductors.pdf.html

Maybe you already tried this one? It is a bit blurry.
What lies behind us and what lies before us are tiny matters, compared to what lies within us - Emerson

slacker

#4
Looks like you've got it right to me Jimi, Pin 14 +9 Volts , pin 7 ground, pins 12 and 11 are divide by 2 and 4 so that will give you 1 and 2 Octaves down.
The only thing missing is on the CD2024 pin 2 is the reset pin, this needs to be connected to ground for the chip to work.
You can experiment with any of the outputs on the 4024, each division gives you another octave down, obviously if you go too low you don't get audio just weird pulsing throbbing things which are interesting if not very musical.

DiscoFreq

I recently bought one of these:



with a funny shop sticker:
EffectsDatabase: http://www.effectsdatabase.com
22000 pedals, 4000 brands, 350 brand interviews

NAMM 2016: http://fxdb.org/namm

Güero

simple octaves? Maybe a 4013 ?
Curing the infection one bullet at a time.

digi2t

#7
Gee, I have eight SFF5002E's that I ripped out of an old Farfisa. They're also listed as 7 stage frequency dividers. I need to find the datasheet on them, and compare it to the SAJ110.

Jimi bro... I do believe that you've come up with a new addition to the Hen's Tooth Cafe.

EDIT: Dang it... just noticed that they also stamped with the equivilent number SAJ180. Need to see if they'll work.
  • SUPPORTER
Dead End FX
http://www.deadendfx.com/

Asian Icemen rise again...
http://www.soundclick.com/bands/default.cfm?bandID=903467

"My ears don't distinguish good from great.  It's a blessing, really." EBK

nick d

                 The makers name label on the side of the box.......... Succ. DE %^&* ....
     
                 Are we sure about this ?????????      Much LOLZ !

knutolai

A CD4040 could maybe be useful

Mark Hammer

Think of this thing like a Rocktave without the companding.

I imagine the CD4024 as a very suitable and inexpensive replacement for the SAJ110, particularly since one is simply using two of the dividers.  I suppose the only thing to maybe be mindful of is what the respective trigger thresholds of the two chips might be.  My 4024 datasheet says it wants a 7v input signal to trigger a high state when powered by 9V.  The datasheets I could find for the SAJ110 were too blurry to read the fine print, so I don't know what it needs to trigger a division.  That situation is certainly remediable, butwill explain why a quick build with a 4024 may or may not work right off the bat.

pinkjimiphoton

Quote from: slacker on January 19, 2014, 06:07:19 AM
Looks like you've got it right to me Jimi, Pin 14 +9 Volts , pin 7 ground, pins 12 and 11 are divide by 2 and 4 so that will give you 1 and 2 Octaves down.
The only thing missing is on the CD2024 pin 2 is the reset pin, this needs to be connected to ground for the chip to work.
You can experiment with any of the outputs on the 4024, each division gives you another octave down, obviously if you go too low you don't get audio just weird pulsing throbbing things which are interesting if not very musical.


ahhhh, thanks ian!!! so then each output is a different octave down... i get it. i thought they were for different pitches!! cool!!! thanks for the tip that pin 2 needs grounding, i'm gonna have a go at this on the breadboard maybe tomorrow when the part store opens. ;)
  • SUPPORTER
"When the power of love overcomes the love of power the world will know peace."
Slava Ukraini!
"try whacking the bejesus outta it and see if it works again"....
~Jack Darr

pinkjimiphoton

Quote from: DiscoFreq on January 19, 2014, 06:26:25 AM
I recently bought one of these:



with a funny shop sticker:


hahahahhaahahahahahah!!! that sticker rules, bart!!

that alone would make even a "suck" pedal good. ;)
  • SUPPORTER
"When the power of love overcomes the love of power the world will know peace."
Slava Ukraini!
"try whacking the bejesus outta it and see if it works again"....
~Jack Darr

pinkjimiphoton

hi mark,

i'm thinking maybe one of my little boosters would be perfect for a front end then maybe, i think it was duck_arse said he was getting 8v p-p output off a 9v  supply with two of 'em in series.

it certainly looks like it will be fun to play with....

dino.... as long as the chips basic functions are the same, you should be golden from the research i did... from what i understand, a few of the SAJ chips are interchangeable even. one more hen's tooth? how cool is that? and disco_freq HAS one...


life is good!! ;)
  • SUPPORTER
"When the power of love overcomes the love of power the world will know peace."
Slava Ukraini!
"try whacking the bejesus outta it and see if it works again"....
~Jack Darr

Jdansti

Don't know if you saw this, but it has the actual pinout for the SAJ110.

http://www.mzentertainment.com/technical_archive/saj110_data.gif

Now to figure out what the connections to the triangle in your scheme mean. :)
  • SUPPORTER
R.G. Keene: EXPECT there to be errors, and defeat them...

pinkjimiphoton

thanks john, i found that too...

but i don't really understand the "shorthand" in the pinout... it looks like boxes that are just connected by lines to me. ;)

if ian's right,   it should be right. it seems ok to me from looking at it. put a frequency in the common input, one goes up an octave, one goes down, or goes down two depending on how ya wire it if i'm "getting" it.

that did it. now my brain hurts. ;)
  • SUPPORTER
"When the power of love overcomes the love of power the world will know peace."
Slava Ukraini!
"try whacking the bejesus outta it and see if it works again"....
~Jack Darr

arma61

"it's a matter of objectives. If you don't know where you want to go, any direction is about as good as any other." R.G. Keen

pinkjimiphoton

awesome, armando, thanks so much man!!

much easier to make out, and i can see the pinout... so i think i'm cool, i'll take a ride tomorrow and pick up a couple chips and take it for a ride!

;)
  • SUPPORTER
"When the power of love overcomes the love of power the world will know peace."
Slava Ukraini!
"try whacking the bejesus outta it and see if it works again"....
~Jack Darr

Jdansti

#18
Looking at another scheme using the 4024, you might need to ground the reset pin 2:

http://www.musicfromouterspace.com/index.php?MAINTAB=SYNTHDIY&PROJARG=NOISECORNREV01/NOISECORNREV01.php&VPW=1024&VPH=500

Edit:

I think you're on the right track. Here are a couple more 4024 examples:

Slacktave:
http://www.diystompboxes.com/smfforum/index.php?topic=76695.0

Also:



  • SUPPORTER
R.G. Keene: EXPECT there to be errors, and defeat them...

armdnrdy

I just designed a new fuzz circuit! It almost sounds a little different than the last fifty fuzz circuits I designed! ;)