Wah into silicon Fuzz Face cause howling and general unwanted noise, help?

[Nocaster Cat]

Title says it all. I've built a couple of silicon Fuzz Faces and every one of them freaks out if the wah is engaged. All my other pedals/builds do just fine so I'm curious as to what's going on? I've tried various transistors in the Fuzz Face, all with the same result. Am I overlooking something? Thanks!

[Seljer]

Its a know issue It occurs because of how fuzz face reacts to the low output impedance of the wah. A guitar by itself has got a rather high impedance so with it plugged directly into the wah it functions normally.
You can stop it by slapping in a couple of kiloohms of resistance in series with either the output of the wah or the input of the fuzz face. Or by putting a simple buffer circuit at the end of the wah.

[Nocaster Cat]

Its a know issue It occurs because of how fuzz face reacts to the low output impedance of the wah. A guitar by itself has got a rather high impedance so with it plugged directly into the wah it functions normally.
You can stop it by slapping in a couple of kiloohms of resistance in series with either the output of the wah or the input of the fuzz face. Or by putting a simple buffer circuit at the end of the wah.

Cool, thanks!

[pinkjimiphoton]

stick a 50k pot in line with the output of the wah before the switch.. then you have a passive "buffer" and can dial it in til it works. kinda.

in my opinion, the fuzz MUST come first. none of the buffers really work, but the resistance can help.

[peps1]

1: Use a buffer between them, this will lose some fuzzyness.
2: Put Fuzz Face first, this make for a more/too prominent Wah sound.
3: Increase the resistance at the input of the Fuzz Face, this dulls the sustain.
4: build one of the buffers designed for wah output stage.

I'd go 3, or 4!

[pinkjimiphoton]

problem is, NONE of them buffers work as people claim. i build every damn one on the net, and none of 'em work right. put the fuzz first, then wah, then dirt is the only way to fly.
the best one of all the suggestions was the passive buffer... a 50k pot wired as a variable resistor. but even then the fuzz and wah don't play all that nice together.

use your ears, do what sounds best to you.

[deadastronaut]

i'm surprised in all these years of people building fuzz faces this hasn't properly been sorted..ive seen this come up time after time..

everyone loves a wah don't they?..

[pinkjimiphoton]

i'm surprised in all these years of people building fuzz faces this hasn't properly been sorted..ive seen this come up time after time..

everyone loves a wah don't they?..

[R.G.]

i'm surprised in all these years of people building fuzz faces this hasn't properly been sorted..ive seen this come up time after time..

There's a story there. At USA (and probably most countries') army new-recruit centers, they deal with a new load of people every week or so. Hundreds of new folks with no clue about how to do whatever it is are dumped off the busses, and herded through medical tests and immunizations, then barbering and issuance of uniforms and so on. Despite all the efforts to herd them through the right corridors, signs, colored stripes and arrows on the floors, whatever, a goodly percentage of the newbies get it solidly wrong on everything. The story goes that one day, a supply sergeant working the issuance of uniforms had been pushed past his limit of endurance by the sheer un-intelligence of a newbie, and with a red face screamed at the room full of recruits "What's wrong with you people? You come here every week and do the same exact thing!! Why can't you ever get it right?"

People building effects are a river, and as the saying goes, you can never enter the same river twice. There is a continual flow of newbies, most of whom are too involved with building their new MegaBlitz PsychoBlaster clone to read the history - or to even know the history exists. Even if the story had been sorted perfectly, and written up in detail, there would still be a hardly-diminished stream of questions on it, because each one is experiencing the problem fresh and new, and hasn't learned that there may have been answers or lessons learned. The post comes here. This is especially true for situations that are not simply wrong-part/wrong-pinout/can't-solder.

It's gonna happen. A lot of what I wrote up at geofex was to help folks like that. It works - as long as people get pushed into reading geofex. But each new recruit...  

[joegagan]

Which megablitz psychoblaster? I built v3 ( the 7 transistor, pre jfet) and it doesn't have half the boom i am getting from the sounclips of v1 on youtube?

[R.G.]

Which megablitz psychoblaster? I built v3 ( the 7 transistor, pre jfet) and it doesn't have half the boom i am getting from the sounclips of v1 on youtube?

You want the one that's powered by the Mr.Fusion power supply...   

[pinkjimiphoton]

you need a flux capacitor.

never fear:

http://www.oreillyauto.com/site/c/detail/EB00/121G.oap?keyword=121g

[duck_arse]

mega blitz    psycho ...... what happened to the belchfire?

[garfo]

Either buffer it, or replace the order of the pedals.

[pinkjimiphoton]

fuzz first always... then wah. then no problem. put everything else after that... whammy's and stuff are supposed to go first, but i think they sound/track better with some compressed filth hitting them. that way ya still got your wah to tickle your od's and distortions, and a fuzz wah from hell if ya need it (which you can't get the other way, but can clean it up from your guitar).

more and more i'm considering adding my morley volume wah after all the dirt and boosts. it's helpful some times to have two or three wahs in the chain if you're like joe gagan (or me sometimes when recording)

btw... shameless promotion for our old friend that i doubt he'd do here,
but if you haven't checked out joe's new wah pots with them groovy ass gears that let ya get a crybaby to use most of it's sweep, you are REALLY missing out.
for 20 bux you cannot do better imho.. not a wahmeister like joe, but now i can play one on tv.

really really good.

sorry... now back to our regular scheduled recreational activities..

[zombiwoof]

I recently read an interview with Roger Mayer, and he says that in the studio, he always used some sort of buffer he built in between Jimi's wah and the FF.  This is the first time I've heard him say that, and makes me wonder if he worked up something similar for Jimi's live work, where he often had the wah in front of the FF.

I've had some success putting certain compressor pedals (on, set to lowest compression) in between the wah and FF, and it actually works.  The wah/FF combo sounds as it should, and using the FF by itself with the comp in front still has a good sound.

However, I have a Hartman boutique germ FF that has a volume control, and also an input level control.  I followed the directions in the manual for setting the FF, turning the Vol. on the FF all the way up, and the input level up only as far as I want (unity gain or slight boost).  By setting it like this, I can use any wah in front of the FF with no problems, and the Fuzz Face sounds great by itself, and cleans up nicely when you turn down the guitar volume.  So, I think the input level control on the FF is the answer as far as I'm concerned, it's not really a problem with the output impedance of the wah, it's the input impedance of the FF that is the problem IMO.

I've dealt with this problem for years, and have finally found a solution that works for me.

Al

[pinkjimiphoton]

it's the "passive buffer" effect of the input level control. yep. that's the best solution if you must have wah first. interestingly, you can have a buffered pedal before the fuzz if ya use the input level trick... you do lose just a touch of interaction tho, but how often do you need full on fuzzface? *

















*whenever the guitar ain't turned down, lol   

[zombiwoof]

it's the "passive buffer" effect of the input level control. yep. that's the best solution if you must have wah first. interestingly, you can have a buffered pedal before the fuzz if ya use the input level trick... you do lose just a touch of interaction tho, but how often do you need full on fuzzface? *

The interesting thing for me is that I found that using a comp pedal set to lowest compression works even with my FF's with no input level control!.  I don't know why, maybe when the comp effect is on (not bypassed), the output impedance is more evenly matched to the input of the FF.  Don't know why it works, but it does.  The FF with input level is the best solution for me now, though, and the Hartman germ FF sounds great anyway!.

Al















*whenever the guitar ain't turned down, lol