latest hairbrain half baked idea... could use some thoughts.. a fuzz phaser

[pinkjimiphoton]

i was thinking over my morning smoke about the modded rams head big muff i'm working up..

and go to thinking as i often do, with the wind ssschwooshing by as the cars hiss by my window (like the waves down on the beach?)

about phase shifters. and fuzz, of course, cuz the two to me seem like pastrami and swiss.. maybe some mushrooms (hope you old guys are grinning)

so what i thought about, and sorry for the convolution, was an idea my brother woden had sorta..

could it be possible to build a quad fuzz, with each fuzz voiced differently, from mid cut fuzz to sharp and treble boosted  to midrange boosted to bass boosted, each with it's own input and a summed output to a global master volume... with but have the input to the fuzz circuits swept by an lfo somehow? or would it tick like crazy?

better, could it be possible to use a pot or opto kind of device to sweep between the different sounds, maybe with square, saw and reverse saw toothed waves so you could have a tremolo-ish stutter, or sweeping up or down from high to low respectively.

this is way above my paygrade, but a boy can dream, right? 

i'm thinking simple, preset fuzz circuits with no knobs all at unity gains. how could you make it overlap between fuzzes? pots would seem impractical, other than maybe one like a crybaby
to control the speed of the lfo, or so you could sweep it like a wah if you kill the pipe dreams? obviously. but is something like this possible ? maybe stick it in a crybaby or morley i think i could work up the fuzzes ok, but i know nothing of oscillators and lfos and all that stuff, and even less about using light to control sound.

maybe if it's not too hairbrain it'd sound cool? i'm hearing kinda like a real phasey fuzzwah or almost a sample and hold effect in my head...

would apprecitate any and all help and ideas, and would welcome collabs to make this thing work.

thanks for reading this guys.

[pappasmurfsharem]

Probably not as many options as what you saying but the Roland Jet Phaser AP-7 is a fuzz/phaser

Found one in hte garbage all apart and whatnot potential water damage. Haven't tried fixing it yet. Not a big fan of Fuzz in general.

[pinkjimiphoton]

that's a cool effect, but i'm meaning ( i think) sweeping the input of the fuzz circuits, not sweeping a filter...(i think)like a phaser.

i mean using the fuzzes as the filter.. like if each ldr of a univibe were connected to it's own fuzz circuit instead of a phase shift circuit...

modulating the fuzzes, not the frequencies.

i don't think i'm explaining this right.

if ya don't wanna deal with that thing tho, let me know i may be interested!!

[Mark Hammer]

There are a couple of "morphing" pedals out there, like the Toadworks Enveloope and the ZVex Loopgate.  However, these morph between what's in the loop, and what you feed the pedal, such that the loop FX would be always added on top of whatever you fed the pedal's input.  None of the one's I am familiar with use signal dynamics to morph between two alternate sounds, although clearly it is technically possible.

There is also the matter of whether the morph is intended to be stepwise or gradual, and what is gained/lost by doing it the one way vs the other.  For example, a sequential switch ( hammer.ampage.org/files/quadsequentialswitch.pdf ) could allow the player to move, in round-robin fashion, across a a series of fuzzes, on command.

Alternatively, a clocked (rather than individually actuated) electronic sequential switch could be directed to route the signal through fuzz A, then B, then C, etc., at a given rate, not unlike a free-running sequencer.

Having the changeover, or smooth morph, happen in response to signal properties, becomes a slightly more complex affair.  Although I can conceive of ways for it to involve more than 2 choices, in its simplest form it would morph between two different sounds...which may not be enough for you.  Hell, if you want to get simpler still, plunk two fuzzes in a wah shell and pan between them.

[bluebunny]

While Mark was typing, I was also trying to understand what you're after, Jimi.  I think Mark has used some of the same words that came into my mind too. My take is that you want something that morphs (or fades) from fuuzzz to PHUZ to FuZz to fffffffzzzzz (and back to the start) at some rate governed by an LFO (or something with a "rate" knob).  Some CMOS round-robin switching, but with chunks of R/C to slow things down?

Or am I inventing something entirely different?

Sounds cool, whatever it is!  

[Mark Hammer]

Hmmm.  Digging in the basement the other day, I stumbled onto a couple of boxes of old computer gear/peripherals.  Tandy joysticks!! 

[rutabaga bob]

From a guy who don't know nuthin': fuzz circuits into blend controls, the blends set by whatever you perceive as a 'sweet spot'.  The different variations footswitch-selectable, like an A-B box arrangement at the front end.  It wouldn't 'morph', but you could grab the different sounds on the fly.

[mth5044]

I really like the idea if I'm understanding it.

I DON'T think you want something that allows you to select between four different fuzzes as has been recommended.

You want something like those ZVex seek pedals (trem, wah, etc) that will cycle the signal into the inputs of the various fuzzes, but rather than abrubtly changing between each one like you were turning a rotary switch, it needs to go smoothly like a phaser. I like that.

So! I'll make this up as I type - What if we used a sequencer like the seek pedals set up to an LFO to determine the rate of movement (can also be easily tap tempo'd). The sequencer would travel through 4 different outputs each one triggering a switch. Each switch is connected to a little circuit that has a cap biased at a certain voltage. When that switch is thrown, the cap begins to charge which turns on an LED for that lights up an LDR that increase the volume of fuzz 1. Next step in the sequencer opens the next switch which begins to increase the volume of fuzz 2 and also closes the previous switch, decreasing the volume of fuzz 1. The sequence continues for fuzz 3 and 4 then starts over.

The caps will need to be set at certain voltage and paired with a certain resistor and other circuitry (possible some kind of opamp watching it?).

WTF.

See below for all the reasons that doesn't work and all the better ways to do it.

[pinkjimiphoton]

There are a couple of "morphing" pedals out there, like the Toadworks Enveloope and the ZVex Loopgate.  However, these morph between what's in the loop, and what you feed the pedal, such that the loop FX would be always added on top of whatever you fed the pedal's input.  None of the one's I am familiar with use signal dynamics to morph between two alternate sounds, although clearly it is technically possible.

There is also the matter of whether the morph is intended to be stepwise or gradual, and what is gained/lost by doing it the one way vs the other.  For example, a sequential switch ( hammer.ampage.org/files/quadsequentialswitch.pdf ) could allow the player to move, in round-robin fashion, across a a series of fuzzes, on command.

it's gotta be switchable from clocked to manual ideally.  switching between the square wave should give a stuttering sample and hold fuzz effect, sawtooth/anti sawtooth should sweep up and down.. that way it either morphs between the different fuzzes, or is stacatto, like an fuzz repeat/kay trem/ kinda sound... with me?

Alternatively, a clocked (rather than individually actuated) electronic sequential switch could be directed to route the signal through fuzz A, then B, then C, etc., at a given rate, not unlike a free-running sequencer.

you're beginning to grok me mark

Having the changeover, or smooth morph, happen in response to signal properties, becomes a slightly more complex affair.  Although I can conceive of ways for it to involve more than 2 choices, in its simplest form it would morph between two different sounds...which may not be enough for you.  Hell, if you want to get simpler still, plunk two fuzzes in a wah shell and pan between them.

i want it to morph like a univibe, for all intents... 4 stages of phasing via four modulations of fuzz.. morphing between the fuzz tones, rather than morphing thru frequency sweeps.

While Mark was typing, I was also trying to understand what you're after, Jimi.  I think Mark has used some of the same words that came into my mind too. My take is that you want something that morphs (or fades) from fuuzzz to PHUZ to FuZz to fffffffzzzzz (and back to the start) at some rate governed by an LFO (or something with a "rate" knob).  Some CMOS round-robin switching, but with chunks of R/C to slow things down?

Or am I inventing something entirely different?

Sounds cool, whatever it is!   

you got it.. that's what i want... except i wanna make the rate control be able to be automated, or manually swept... ie... slow modulation to fast modulation between the fuzzes by control of the pedal, or being able to sweep between them like a wah with the lfo disabled.

i was figuring that the square wave would give an abrubt choppy sound, and some way to slow down the crossfade between the others would be the way to go...sawtooth waves will make it sound like it's sweeping up from fuzz 1 to 4, and reverse sawtooth should do the opposite, right? am i overcomplicating?

the basic idea would be a treadle pedal. rock back hard to change a switch in the heel to determine if the osc is running the pedal, in which case the pedal controls speed, or is not, in which case it sweeps like a wah. put the bypass in the toe, like a regular crybaby.

and it's gotta be something diy'able.

i think it may even wobble a little...

I really like the idea if I'm understanding it.

I DON'T think you want something that allows you to select between four different fuzzes as has been recommended.

nope. it's gotta be automated. i don't wanna have to stomp on boxes, i wanna sweep a pedal.

You want something like those ZVex seek pedals (trem, wah, etc) that will cycle the signal into the inputs of the various fuzzes, but rather than abrubtly changing between each one like you were turning a rotary switch, it needs to go smoothly like a phaser. I like that.

like a morphing fuzz/vibe/phaser...exactly... but with the phasing coming from fuzz rather than filters.

So! I'll make this up as I type - What if we used a sequencer like the seek pedals set up to an LFO to determine the rate of movement (can also be easily tap tempo'd). The sequencer would travel through 4 different outputs each one triggering a switch. Each switch is connected to a little circuit that has a cap biased at a certain voltage. When that switch is thrown, the cap begins to charge which turns on an LED for that lights up an LDR that increase the volume of fuzz 1. Next step in the sequencer opens the next switch which begins to increase the volume of fuzz 2 and also closes the previous switch, decreasing the volume of fuzz 1. The sequence continues for fuzz 3 and 4 then starts over.

precisely. is it doable??

The caps will need to be set at certain voltage and paired with a certain resistor and other circuitry (possible some kind of opamp watching it?).

WTF.

See below for all the reasons that doesn't work and all the better ways to do it.

see where below? you're sounding like this is doable... i'm betting it could sound REALLY cool... a totally different kind of modulation...fuzzy goodness style!!

thank you all for the input!!!

[mth5044]

see where below? you're sounding like this is doable... i'm betting it could sound REALLY cool... a totally different kind of modulation...fuzzy goodness style!!

thank you all for the input!!!

I meant look at the future posts below mine saying why my idea doesn't work 

[pinkjimiphoton]

 

[haveyouseenhim]

What if you had a wet/dry blend on 4 different fuzz circuits and used an LDR on the control pot of each. Then have a sequencer light up leds one at a time controlling the mix of each one.

I don't know how to do it. I just thought one of you geniuses could use the idea.  

[pinkjimiphoton]

What if you had a wet/dry blend on 4 different fuzz circuits and used an LDR on the control pot of each. Then have a sequencer light up leds one at a time controlling the mix of each one.

I don't know how to do it. I just thought one of you geniuses could use the idea.  

MIKE... YES. THIS IS WHAT I'M TRYING TO DESCRIBE I THINK! SO IT SWELLS INTO FUZZ BUT THE PHASE CHANGES CUZ OF THE DIFFERENT FUZZ VOICINGS!!

GENIUS DUDE!!

[blackieNYC]

I'm feelin it.  I've done this on a much smaller scale and I really like it.  I have a stereo tremolo/panner and a splitter/ blender. I set it for a very slow sine LFO, just panning - not tremolo really-  send the right and left to different fuzzes and blend them back together into mono.  Really slow and subtle. Gives a great dynamic evolving sound.  Maximum pan depth or rather minimal.  Ok, Ive bookmarked way too many threads.

[mth5044]

That's what I was getting at, but I wasn't sure if a sequencer would fad between the LED's or abruptly change. The sequencer I had experimented with only did the on/off thing. That is what I added the cap charge/discharge part. Perhaps there is a sequencery which could fade between LEDs? That would make this actually pretty simple in theory.

Hmm I could actually just program a PICAXE for this...

[pinkjimiphoton]

gotta do it without microcontroller stuff... don't want it to be dsp, wanna build it!!

[pinkjimiphoton]

ummm... what about an envelope follower front end? switchable i mean...

[mth5044]

I could send you a programmed microcontroller if you want, but I guess if it's for the masses that would not be feasible. I think a sequencer to a 4 SPST switching IC with LED's connected to an cap timing circuit with LED's would work. I'm looking into it!

So we can use a CD4022 set to 4 to give us a cycle of four. We could use that to have it scroll through the 4 LED's connected to LDR's to bring in the four different fuzzes, but this would cause an abrupt change between the four. We need to have it fade.

[pinkjimiphoton]

i agree. cross fading is the way to go.... but the abrupt change may sound cool, too! like a fuzz sample-and-hold..

[mth5044]

Ideally the lfo/sequencer would have controls for rate and crossfade, but I'm not sure how to go about that right now.

A question I thought of for you is do you want to use the same fuzz but with different tone shapes or four totally different fuzz circuits? You could use a 4022 with LED's and LDR's to alter the tone control... kind of like an LFO controlled wah. Or do you want it to go between four completely different fuzzes?