Fuzz + Wah compatability

[jayfroo]

I have breadboarded an NPN Fuzz with 2N1304 transistors. Plugged in a wah before it and with the heel down it starts to squeal (self oscillate?). Schematic is based on http://fuzzcentral.ssguitar.com/fuzzface/fuzzfacepnpschematic.gif with the following changes

2.2uF -> 4.7uF
470->680
560 in series with the 1k pot

Q1E 0.03V
Q1B 0.13
Q1C 0.74

Q2E 0.59
Q2B 0.72
Q2C 1.67-6.4 thru 1k pot sweep

Should I try putting a buffer before the fuzz? Also the 1k fuzz pot seems to change the shape of fuzz effect but doesn't clean it up much (i suppose that is the job of the guitars volume). Is it a common occurance to have to add a resistor in series with this pot to keep the transistor biased? With out the 560 the fuzz gets really "farty"/ "blatty" sort of like when Q1B doesnt have enough voltage.

[pinkjimiphoton]

put a 50k pot wired as a variable resistor between the output of the wah and the wah's switch. you can adjust the pot til ya find a sweet spot where the fuzz and wah will play decent together. cheaper, easier, and works as well or better than a buffer in this application.

[LucifersTrip]

I have breadboarded an NPN Fuzz with 2N1304 transistors. Plugged in a wah before it

you didn't like the wah after?

[pinkjimiphoton]

I have breadboarded an NPN Fuzz with 2N1304 transistors. Plugged in a wah before it

you didn't like the wah after?

[deadastronaut]

this wah ''after'' lark has been bugging me for a while..ive always used a wah before dirt. as i found a wah after to sound naff and weak..

so i did a little test..

here is a fuzz on breadboard .. with exactly the same record levels/settings

clip 1 :  wah before fuzz: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/7464107/wahinfrontoffuzz.mp3

clip 2 : wah after fuzz: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/7464107/wahafterfuzz.mp3

the wah after sounds sh*t imo.  agreed?...i know it was a joke, (i think ) but recently ive read people using wahs after wtf?.


unmodded crybaby gcb blah blah.. notice the level difference with the wah off compared to clip 1, and when its on in clip2... (wah after) ...terrible.

now i know for sure i was right to have wah BEFORE!!!!!

case closed.!

[LucifersTrip]

Wasn't a joke...many use it after a fuzz because the effect is stronger and no buffer needed.

But it's all up to preference. Since you seem to like mostly modern hard rock /metal, before will get closer. But if you're more into 60's psych, etc, after will get you there easier.  Ie, there's no part of your 1st sound clip that is close to the oomph at :18 in the 2nd.

you can read a million articles/vids...here's one that describes the oscillation that the op described:
http://screaminfx.com/tech/wah-before-or-after-fuzz-pedal.htm

[deadastronaut]

weird...i thought the first clip (wah before) was much more in tune with levels , tone etc...

wheras the second sucked the life out of the guitar even before the wah was on, then when the wah was on its a masive difference in level..and a weaker wah


eye of the beholder i guess..

lets have a vote 

1 or 2.  sounds best.

[Blitz Krieg]

modern hard rock /metal, before. But if you're more into 60's psych, etc, after

The first clip sounds like Zakk Wylde and the second clip sounds like flower power.

[deadastronaut]

cool keep em coming...

[GibsonGM]

Can't stand wah after. Never.  Wah'ing fuzz is, in my neck of the woods, considered to be NASTY!!!   Seems almost like a poor man's envelope filter, no?   I mean, you could do the c*cked wah thing that way, but I'd probably just make a mid circuit that would do it better.  And if you want a gain spike, well - a booster will do that!

Music played: everything from Yardbirds, Stones, Beatles and BB King to Aerosmith, Zeppelin, Pearl Jam, GNR.....mostly really old stuff, so it's not a 'modern' thing...IMO, sounds like crap whether you are running overdrive levels of distortion or full-out square wave.

Just one player's opinion.

[pinkjimiphoton]

the DEAL is this. fuzz first. then wah. then dirt. that is all.

fuzz has to be first for it to work right and interact properly with your guitar. properly done, it sounds @#$%in' great.

depending on where your guitar is set, anywhere from mild wah to screaming fuzz wah.

distortion/overdrive etc (in that order) sound like shit before a wah. they overdrive the wah, and it sounds like poo... unless looking for the exagerated quack.

so... i split the dif with ya. fuzz has to be first, then wah BEFORE DIRT. but it's gotta be after fuzz.

i gig endlessly, and play virtually everything from the allman brothers to frank zappa live every gig... from blues one minute to zepp to floyd to johnny cash to alice in chains to yes.

my way, i can do it all. it is impossible to get the same sound out of a wah BEFORE a fuzz that you do after.  but the opposite does not apply.

for all intents, i have three wahs on my board anyways.. my modded crybaby, my eh talking pedal clone, and a little dano french fries auto wah, and all three are at different points in the chain.   


fuzz comes before ALL of them... the others are interspersed between distortions and overdrive... the eh is the last thing before my modulation stuff. the french fries come after the fuzzes before the overdrives.

to my ear, a wah becomes nothing more than a tone filter if it's put first.

comes down to.... do you want to distort your wah, or wah your distortion?

if you wanna distort your wah, put it first.  if ya use fuzz, it'll cause issues.

if ya wanna wah your distortion (which i do... i loved them big old morley power wahs) the dirt has to come first. then it really acts as a filter.

rob, just for shits and giggles, try one more recording with just the wah, no dirt before or after... then you can really tell the difference betwixt the two.

there's no right/wrong way... it's what makes your ears smile and your trousers too tite.

[pinkjimiphoton]

this wah ''after'' lark has been bugging me for a while..ive always used a wah before dirt. as i found a wah after to sound naff and weak..

so i did a little test..

here is a fuzz on breadboard .. with exactly the same record levels/settings

clip 1 :  wah before fuzz: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/7464107/wahinfrontoffuzz.mp3

clip 2 : wah after fuzz: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/7464107/wahafterfuzz.mp3

the wah after sounds sh*t imo.  agreed?...i know it was a joke, (i think ) but recently ive read people using wahs after wtf?.


unmodded crybaby gcb blah blah.. notice the level difference with the wah off compared to clip 1, and when its on in clip2... (wah after) ...terrible.

now i know for sure i was right to have wah BEFORE!!!!!

case closed.!

just listened to the clips on some big speakers on my kid's computer (what used to be my studio, snif) and to me, it almost sounds like the two clips titles are reversed.

the first clip sounds more like what i get, the second more like my bro mike gets (using the wah with buffer first).

the fuzz sounds more like a distortion than a fuzz to my ear, what is it? something you're knocking up, or a pre-existing design?

nice clips, btw!

if it's more of a distortion than a fuzz, i would expect it to sound like the clips. with a true fuzz (fuzzface/tonebender etc) i bet the clip would be different.

apples and orangutans.

[deadastronaut]

its a slightly modified  gus's ''a different sort of fuzz''...

anyway i thought i'd try it through my amp.. all same settings.

wah only into amp..

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/7464107/wahonlyamp.mp3

wah before ''fuzz''

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/7464107/wahbefore.mp3



''fuzz'' then wah  (nasty)

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/7464107/wah%20after.mp3

anyway, i don't get oscillation as the original poster'jayfroo'  said...at all.

[Davelectro]

Gus fuzz has a 33K resistor in series with the input. I think that's why you don't get any oscillation.

[pinkjimiphoton]

Gus fuzz has a 33K resistor in series with the input. I think that's why you don't get any oscillation.

+1

it's effectively a passive buffer

[bluebunny]

it's what makes your ears smile and your trousers too tite.

Eloquent, Pink, so eloquent!   

Must remember this next time I'm stood in front of an audience...

[pinkjimiphoton]

it's what makes your ears smile and your trousers too tite.

Eloquent, Pink, so eloquent!   

Must remember this next time I'm stood in front of an audience...

[pinkjimiphoton]

its a slightly modified  gus's ''a different sort of fuzz''...

anyway i thought i'd try it through my amp.. all same settings.

wah only into amp..

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/7464107/wahonlyamp.mp3

wah before ''fuzz''

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/7464107/wahbefore.mp3



''fuzz'' then wah  (nasty)

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/7464107/wah%20after.mp3

anyway, i don't get oscillation as the original poster'jayfroo'  said...at all.

man, i could listen to you wail all day.

you play so good i had to MAKE MYSELF LISTEN TO THE TONE and not your chops!!

if i ever make it to big blighty, i wanna jam with you mate. i'll be like syd barrett... standing there wide eyed arms hanging at my sides, big ol' empty black holes for eyes... going... "damn, how's he do that shit?"



(just to get to hear ya some more) try maybe the fuzz first, then wah, then an overdrive?

you don't have to, lol... the amp is already kinda overdriven, i just wanna hear more deadastro!!

[guitarkill]

I am a wah before dist person as well.

[pinkjimiphoton]

me too. but fuzz gotta be first. fuzz isn't distortion, it's fuzz!!