Kevlar speaker cones

[tca]

I've build a small pyramid cab with a 5'' woofer (33Hz -8kHz) with a Kevlar cone. I do like it very much. Peavey uses Kevlar impregnated cones. Any impressions on these type of speakers? Not very common on guitar cabs, are they?

Cheers.

[R.G.]

Kevlar = light and strong.

Light is good for a cone, as it lets it move back and forth faster, better hi frequency response.

Strong is good for a cone, as it lets it move as a piston, not having the center of the cone wiggle and flex the cone in the middle.

In fact, CONES were used for speakers to get more stiffness and less weight from less capable materials like paper.

As to whether it's good for guitar, that depends. Guitar speakers are not hifi reproducers, where the goal is accurate REproduction. They are best thought of as acoustic instruments themselves. Their imperfections, like the resonances of a guitar or violin body, are the instrument's voice.

What I or anyone else thinks of kevlar cones for guitar is irrelevant to you. You need to listen to them.

Some MI cones are actually made of aluminum!

[GGBB]

Kevlar reinforced cones have been in use in HiFi for many years - at least as far back as the early 1970's.  But it was originally patented by B&W, so only in the last couple of decades has it become more commonly seen.  Even in HiFi, B&W speakers don't automatically sound "better" (or even obviously different, clearer, ...) than competitors using other materials (typically various forms of reinforced poly), and in my former life of high-end audio sales I sold many pairs of B&Ws so I've done many comparisons.  It was however a definite marketing strategy for B&W.  Personally I like the way midrange frequencies typically sound in B&Ws, but whether that's due to Kevlar I don't know - I like a lot of non-Kevlar speakers too, and some more than I like B&Ws.  There are many ways to make cones stronger and lighter, but as RG stated that's not necessarily what makes a good guitar speaker.  Then again, hemp cones have garnered a lot of fans in the guitar world, and they are supposedly stronger than paper, so why not Kevlar?  I'd love to hear sound samples.

[wavley]

Kevlar reinforced cones have been in use in HiFi for many years - at least as far back as the early 1970's.  But it was originally patented by B&W, so only in the last couple of decades has it become more commonly seen.  Even in HiFi, B&W speakers don't automatically sound "better" (or even obviously different, clearer, ...) than competitors using other materials (typically various forms of reinforced poly), and in my former life of high-end audio sales I sold many pairs of B&Ws so I've done many comparisons.  It was however a definite marketing strategy for B&W.  Personally I like the way midrange frequencies typically sound in B&Ws, but whether that's due to Kevlar I don't know - I like a lot of non-Kevlar speakers too, and some more than I like B&Ws.  There are many ways to make cones stronger and lighter, but as RG stated that's not necessarily what makes a good guitar speaker.  Then again, hemp cones have garnered a lot of fans in the guitar world, and they are supposedly stronger than paper, so why not Kevlar?  I'd love to hear sound samples.

B&W also has those Rohacell reinforced speakers that sound pretty good too.

My "B" monitoring rig for my studio is a tube amp from a Roberts reel to reel and some Leak Sandwich speakers that actually sound pretty musical and not as tiring to mix on as my more accurate monitors.  They're actually foil laminated styrofoam.



It really is all about what sounds good.  It's completely possible that your stiff coned speaker with rubber surround, while not traditional for a guitar speaker, actually sounds better in your small enclosure than a paper driver would.  Greg Ginn used to load his 4x12 cabs with car woofers, and I kinda like the way Black Flag sounds for what they do.

[Fender3D]

...Then again, hemp cones have garnered a lot of fans in the guitar world, ...

lol
I know why hemp cones have garnered a lot of fans in the guitar world 

[tubegeek]

Leak Sandwich speakers

Maybe a ZipLoc bag would help with that?

[tca]

The reason for buying this speaker was mainly price, 17Eurs! You can get one at Amazon



I don't have a "real" guitar speaker to compare, but it sounds really good!

Here are the specs:

Power max.    200W
Power rms    100W
Speaker size    5.25 inch (130mm)
Impedance    8 Ohm
Frequency response    35Hz - 8KHz
SPL @ 1W/1m    89dB
Voice coil    4 Layer
Magnet weight    20 oz - 570gr
Mounting diameter    114mm
Mounting depth    73mm
Dimensions    132 x 73mm


- Reinforced Kevlar cones that can easily handle power peaks. Heat resistant 4 layer voice coil. Impedance 8 Ohm.
- Large magnet
- Vented, heat-resistent voice coil
- Rubber surround
- Kevlar cone

[Kipper4]

This might make an intresting speaker for an ISO cab.
Sorry not thread jacking. I just wondered what you guys think.
Thanks

[R.G.]

I don't have a "real" guitar speaker to compare, but it sounds really good!
Here are the specs:
Power max.    200W
Power rms    100W
Speaker size    5.25 inch (130mm)
Impedance    8 Ohm
Frequency response    35Hz - 8KHz
SPL @ 1W/1m    89dB
Voice coil    4 Layer
Magnet weight    20 oz - 570gr
Mounting diameter    114mm
Mounting depth    73mm
Dimensions    132 x 73mm

Ah. There are some details here where the Devil can hide.

"Frequency response 35Hz - 8kHz"
First, it only says that the speaker responds. It doesn't say how much it responds, or how that was measured. The plain facts are that bass response in the 20-40Hz octave needs to move a lot of air. This can be done by having a lot of surface area and not moving too far, or having a smaller surface area and moving back and forth a long distance. There are issues with moving back and forth a lot; all speakers are limited in how far they can move back and forth in a linear(ish) fashion. Of course, for guitar, the lowest notes are up at over 80 Hz, so it may be OK - as long as it doesn't have to be very loud.

And it's not. The SPL is quoted as 89db at 1W/1M. That's fine, and probably well beyond what's needed for bedroom use, but most normal 12" guitar speakers are rated at 98-110db SPL at 1W/1M. They're much more efficient at converting electricity into air movement. Again, not an issue for a practice amp, and maybe great for a specific use, but not in the same league as normal guitar speakers.

It does say that you can pound it with 100Wrms, so it might get to 109db with another 20db of power pumped in. But again, I have doubts about it doing the bass frequencies well, at low distortion, at that range. Maybe; could happen.

But the final test is - if it sounds good to you, it is good.

I have been building a 1/3 scale model of a Vox Beatle for some years now  and I grabbed a batch of similar 4" speakers, primarily because they're 1/3 the size of 12" guitar speakers. They do sound unexpectedly nice. But I don't think I'll be able to play any gigs with them.   

Again, if it sounds good to you, it is good.

[PRR]

It is Kevlar because 100/200 Watts in that voice-coil would start a FIRE in a paper cone.

The speaker is 0.5% efficient above 100Hz, and can take 20+ watts above 200-300Hz. Much power at lower frequency will slap it. Putting more than 10W long-term in a 20 Oz magnet will heat the voice coil enough to raise its resistance, it starts not-taking power, "thermal compression".

It is IMHO not "a guitar speaker" because it is smaller than a guitar. (Your ear knows the size of a sound source.) It may be good music, but it lacks the physical attribute of large-bodied guitar.

It will play a pluck or a run at 200W and 108dB SPL which is pretty loud. If you play a whole song at 100+ Watt level it will lose volume. Long-term useful output is under 100dB SPL. Heaps for the home. No hope of matching a drummer.

[guitarkill]

As to whether it's good for guitar, that depends. Guitar speakers are not hifi reproducers, where the goal is accurate REproduction. They are best thought of as acoustic instruments themselves. Their imperfections, like the resonances of a guitar or violin body, are the instrument's voice.

I happen to like "full range" speakers for guitar - they don't have those frequency humps that guitar speakers do, which I don't like too much.

[R.G.]

I happen to like "full range" speakers for guitar - they don't have those frequency humps that guitar speakers do, which I don't like too much.

And that's a perfectly reasonable preference for you to have. Some people like flavored coffee, some people firmly believe that such adulterations ruin the coffee. Some don't like coffee itself (... he types as he takes another sip of coffee...    )

There can be no disagreement about matters of taste.

[guitarkill]

I happen to like "full range" speakers for guitar - they don't have those frequency humps that guitar speakers do, which I don't like too much.

And that's a perfectly reasonable preference for you to have. Some people like flavored coffee, some people firmly believe that such adulterations ruin the coffee. Some don't like coffee itself (... he types as he takes another sip of coffee...    )

There can be no disagreement about matters of taste.

I agree! 

[wavley]

I happen to like "full range" speakers for guitar - they don't have those frequency humps that guitar speakers do, which I don't like too much.

And that's a perfectly reasonable preference for you to have. Some people like flavored coffee, some people firmly believe that such adulterations ruin the coffee. Some don't like coffee itself (... he types as he takes another sip of coffee...    )

There can be no disagreement about matters of taste.

I agree! 

Except yours.  You have bad taste, we all agree.

I'm just joking, but there are some forums out there like that 

I'm a firm believer in "whatever floats your boat" it's so hard these days to have an instantly recognizable guitar sound using conventional means, it's a little harder to be Jimi Hendrix or Brian May where you know within three notes exactly who it is. 

Go out and find your own sound!  Convention is a good place to start because it's proven, but as long as it sounds good who cares what's making the sound (unless it's running off the blood of nice old ladies or something, then you're kind of a jerk even if it does sound good)

[guitarkill]

Except yours.  You have bad taste, we all agree.

I'm just joking, but there are some forums out there like that 

I'm a firm believer in "whatever floats your boat" it's so hard these days to have an instantly recognizable guitar sound using conventional means, it's a little harder to be Jimi Hendrix or Brian May where you know within three notes exactly who it is. 

Yeah, some people are really very closed minded about things and think there is only one way to get "the tone". Depends on what your reference point is I guess, and if you are trying to have your own distinctive voice or are trying to be the next SRV copycat. Two different mindsets there.

[Dave W]

the big advantage of full range speakers really comes to light if you use a guitar synth. "regular"  guitar speakers just don't cover enough of the frequency spectrum to reproduce all the sonic potential of the synth. compare the way a GR sounds through a guitar amp vs. a PA. BIG difference.

[guitarkill]

the big advantage of full range speakers really comes to light if you use a guitar synth. "regular"  guitar speakers just don't cover enough of the frequency spectrum to reproduce all the sonic potential of the synth. compare the way a GR sounds through a guitar amp vs. a PA. BIG difference.

That's a very good point.

[tca]

There can be no disagreement about matters of taste.

Just bought a Skytronic 8" Polypropylene Mid Driver 200W:
SPL @ 1W/1m (dB): 90
Frequency Range (Hz): 30Hz - 8kHz

Cheaper in Eurs than in pounds. Loud as hell with an improvised cab!

Just finishing the definite cab

P.S.
And yes, my amplifier has only 1W.

[tca]

Here it is:



Removed the full-range speaker that was previously there.

[tca]

Just recorder two samples:

1. Kevlar
2. Polypropylene

Very different!

P.S.
Some more notes:

The Kevlar speaker has a lot more mids, an uneven frequency response, could be the cab, but it responds to distortion in a very different way compared with the Polypropylene. If I had to pick a world to describe the Kevlar I would pick "fuzz", it does sound much more fuzzier than the other. My favorite? Maybe the Polypropylene, but need to build another cab for the Kevlar to make my mind.