Is the SMD good for make DIY?

[Crontox102098]

There are a new electronic store in my city, full of components that previously i had to buy online.
In that store, they sell SMD components mainly.

And i dont know if it would be better make the boards with SMD components.
Give me u'r opinion, please.

[teemuk]

If you are fit to work with very miniature stuff (practically mandatory use of magnifiers, tweezers, and quite different soldering techniques involved) then yes, why not. Generally SMT -type stuff is more challenging to build than "ordinary" -leaded component -type construction but I know there are guys who pull it off with very small and low power soldering iron, tweezers, magnifying glass and no expensive special tools. It can be done.

[scintillation]

I regularly make SMT PCB designs. I have prototyped with SMT too. It's harder than through hole, but doable.

Boards like this:

http://www.proto-advantage.com/store/product_info.php?products_id=200021

make prototyping easier. I consider myself to have normal eyesight and don't use a magnifying glass for the actual soldering (but do for inspection). I work at 0603 (size of component), 1206 seems huge to me now.

However, for audio stuff, all the components are available through hole, so for audio I use through hole (plus it helps to reduce my large stock pile of through hole components). I have no idea if anyone has done any scientific analysis of the same pedal built in SMT and through hole to see if there is any difference in sound (capacitor types etc.)

[Crontox102098]

That's what worries me, i am thinking to make one of my own stompboxes ("Actremuzzah" cause is it very simple to make)  in SMT and i don't know if that components can get some external noise or if there is any difference in sound.
Tey sell 1210, 1206 and 0805. I will think buy 1206 and make my own boards too.
What u think about? 

[duck_arse]

if you breadboard the circuit w/ normal parts first, and get it to your likings, with all the mods and component changes sorted, you can then convert to smd, and save huge amounts of space in your boxes, probably money on parts as well. I don't think I'd personally want to try working with anything smaller than 1206. unfortunately, most smd small-sig transistors are way smaller. you could maybe do some double-blind tests on smd/thru hole, tell us what you hear.

[amptramp]

You can work with SMD without any different tools than you would use for through-hole but a sharp soldering iron tip and tweezers make things a lot easier.  When you lift the soldering iron off the connection, it tends to take the component with it if you don't have something to hold it down.  It is also very easy to overheat components so you have to be fast - no daydreaming about your screaming fans who have packed the arena to hear your magnificent sound, you tin the contact pad, touch the iron and lift off fast.  Components transfer heat quickly so if you have one side of a resistor soldered and you solder the other side, it will tend to melt the side that is already done.  That is why you have to have something to hold the component down.

[Mark Hammer]

Three kinds of "good":

• good sound?  Certainly.  All major companies use SMD these days, and nobody complains about sound quality going down.  
• a good idea to build with?  Yes.  Many circuits are less complex than maybe they should be, just because it is hard (and expensive) to fit all those parts into a standard-sized, and small, chassis.  SMD permits the box to be a convenient size, and still hold VERY complex circuits with many parts.
• easy to build with?  That will depend on your tools, your skill, and your vision.

I will just mention that it is possible to get very small through-hole components these days.  A combination of SMD semiconductors, 1/8w resistors, miniature electrolytic caps, and professionally-made double-sided boards, can produce a VERY small circuit.

[Crontox102098]

Three kinds of "good":

• good sound?  Certainly.  All major companies use SMD these days, and nobody complains about sound quality going down.  
• a good idea to build with?  Yes.  Many circuits are less complex than maybe they should be, just because it is hard (and expensive) to fit all those parts into a standard-sized, and small, chassis.  SMD permits the box to be a convenient size, and still hold VERY complex circuits with many parts.
• easy to build with?  That will depend on your tools, your skill, and your vision.

I will just mention that it is possible to get very small through-hole components these days.  A combination of SMD semiconductors, 1/8w resistors, miniature electrolytic caps, and professionally-made double-sided boards, can produce a VERY small circuit.

Sure, my vision is good, I use lenses, and have a low temperature solder with a very small tip. I think it could serve. I appreciate all your opinions, I will buy these materials in SMD and will arm. Then I will check the sound compared with the through hole. When finished I give my opinions.

[IsaacMoth]

Ya, i think it mainly comes down to tool. If you try to work with SMD stuff with through hole equipment, you are going to have a bad time. i have modded many a line 6 and changing resistors in there really sucks. But if you have tools made for SMD components, then it should be just fine. 

[induction]

I build all my veros with through hole components one one side and SMD (1206) caps and resistors on the other. The only extra piece of equipment I use for SMD is tweezers. The boards stay nice and small and I end up with no standing resistors (I do have the occasional standing diode, though). I find the SMD just as easy to solder as the through hole, but smaller SMD would probably be more difficult for me.

Here's my Small Time Delay (Thanks, Merlin!):

[Mark Hammer]

I cannot emphasize enough the importance of having a clean, smooth, solid-colour bench top, if one is going to work with SMD parts.

A while back I was repairing a friend's Variax, and we accidentally sweated off a resistor that fell onto the bench.  It was a minor miracle that we were able to find it.  I'm just glad it did not fall onto the carpet I was standing on.   

[duck_arse]

Here's my Small Time Delay (Thanks, Merlin!):

how, on earth ..... ? I can't even get through hole resistors on all two-row spacing, how did you manage resistors and caps?? I'd certainly use similar method if I had the resistors.

[Crontox102098]

Wow, I feel great. I think I'm satisfied enough to assemble my Univibe in SMT  .

[induction]

how, on earth ..... ? I can't even get through hole resistors on all two-row spacing, how did you manage resistors and caps?? I'd certainly use similar method if I had the resistors.

It's easier with SMD for a few reasons:
1. You solder the components between the holes, so your through hole layout doesn't interfere with your SMD layout (they're kind of interlaced).
2. You can do a track cut and lay an SMD across it, so you can expand sideways as well as up and down. I use a dremel engraving bit to make thin cuts.
3. You can put components underneath IC's so you don't have to route around the IC to get from one op-amp to another. If you lay the SMD diagonally, you can put feedback resistors between the output and inverting input of a single op-amp DIP, or you can run coupling caps between op-amp stages in a dual or quad DIP. Track cuts between the holes under the IC can be useful here.

The layouts tend to be harder to read, so I make four separate views: full layout, TH only, SMD only, and track cuts (with the last two mirrored).
Here's my Small Time layout:


Not all of my layouts are entirely devoid of TH resistors and caps. Sometimes those are helpful for bridging larger distances. I use whatever makes the layout tighter. (I am aware that smaller is not always better. Call it a compulsion.)

Here's where I got my SMD components, if you'd like to give it a try for cheap. The kit doesn't contain every value you'll ever need, but you can construct values with parallel components by just stacking them on top of each other.

I tried it on a whim, and now I'll never go back. I love making vero layouts (it's like doing a crossword puzzle), and dual-layer layouts are just that much more fun. Plus, I never enjoyed the struggle of fitting a vero into an enclosure. Smaller layouts make it easier.

Edit:

Wow, I feel great. I think I'm satisfied enough to assemble my Univibe in SMT  .

Check out apollomusicservice's thread on the other forum (free stomp boxes). Just plug "SMD Uni-vibe" into the search box.

[Crontox102098]

how, on earth ..... ? I can't even get through hole resistors on all two-row spacing, how did you manage resistors and caps?? I'd certainly use similar method if I had the resistors.

It's easier with SMD for a few reasons:
1. You solder the components between the holes, so your through hole layout doesn't interfere with your SMD layout (they're kind of interlaced).
2. You can do a track cut and lay an SMD across it, so you can expand sideways as well as up and down. I use a dremel engraving bit to make thin cuts.
3. You can put components underneath IC's so you don't have to route around the IC to get from one op-amp to another. If you lay the SMD diagonally, you can put feedback resistors between the output and inverting input of a single op-amp DIP, or you can run coupling caps between op-amp stages in a dual or quad DIP. Track cuts between the holes under the IC can be useful here.

The layouts tend to be harder to read, so I make four separate views: full layout, TH only, SMD only, and track cuts (with the last two mirrored).
Here's my Small Time layout:


Not all of my layouts are entirely devoid of TH resistors and caps. Sometimes those are helpful for bridging larger distances. I use whatever makes the layout tighter. (I am aware that smaller is not always better. Call it a compulsion.)

Here's where I got my SMD components, if you'd like to give it a try for cheap. The kit doesn't contain every value you'll ever need, but you can construct values with parallel components by just stacking them on top of each other.

I tried it on a whim, and now I'll never go back. I love making vero layouts (it's like doing a crossword puzzle), and dual-layer layouts are just that much more fun. Plus, I never enjoyed the struggle of fitting a vero into an enclosure. Smaller layouts make it easier.

Edit:

Wow, I feel great. I think I'm satisfied enough to assemble my Univibe in SMT  .

Check out apollomusicservice's thread on the other forum (free stomp boxes). Just plug "SMD Uni-vibe" into the search box.

Sure! i wanna make something like that.

[duck_arse]

thanks for the link, induction. now I'm wasting my time looking at 1000 part kits of things from china. goodbye, tayda!

maybe. one day.

[pappasmurfsharem]

thanks for the link, induction. now I'm wasting my time looking at 1000 part kits of things from china. goodbye, tayda!

maybe. one day.

Oh hell yeah.

I'm totally getting some of these.

going to get some boards made around these sizes

[merlinb]

Surface-mount resistors and capacitors are pretty eacy to deal with, provided you have a nice pointy tip on your soldering iron (two soldering irons are ideal for removing parts- you hold one in each hand and use them like heated tweezers). IC's, however, come in several different surface-mount sizes, some of which are so tiny that it's very difficult to solder them by hand. Some are OK though.
I like Induction's approach- through-hole IC's, but surface mount R's and C's.

Also, if you're into hi-fi type cork sniffing, bare in mind that ordinary chip resistors produce distortion. For hi-fi quality stuff, you need to use the more expensive metal-film resistors.

[scintillation]

Most technicians I've worked with (who solder all week long) prefer a bigger tip. I recently converted to this. The secret is flux, armed with a flux pen you can do a really neat job.

I think people who struggle with SMT ICs trying to solder EACH pin, rather than using the drag technique:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wUyetZ5RtPs

I personally set my limit at QFN packages. But these ARE doable to someone with an average setup. I have heard of BGA being done in a home setup, but I have never tried.

I think something worth pointing out is if you are making your own PCBs at home, soldering fine pitch SMT ICs is tricky. This is due to there being no solder mask. You also need to pay attention to large tracks when routing which may suck all your heat away from the component you are trying to solder. With PCB production in China so cheap these days for something with a SMT design, I just get a design made overseas, they key to keeping cost down it get a few designs done at once to spread postage out.

[Crontox102098]

Most technicians I've worked with (who solder all week long) prefer a bigger tip. I recently converted to this. The secret is flux, armed with a flux pen you can do a really neat job.

I think people who struggle with SMT ICs trying to solder EACH pin, rather than using the drag technique:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wUyetZ5RtPs

I personally set my limit at QFN packages. But these ARE doable to someone with an average setup. I have heard of BGA being done in a home setup, but I have never tried.

I think something worth pointing out is if you are making your own PCBs at home, soldering fine pitch SMT ICs is tricky. This is due to there being no solder mask. You also need to pay attention to large tracks when routing which may suck all your heat away from the component you are trying to solder. With PCB production in China so cheap these days for something with a SMT design, I just get a design made overseas, they key to keeping cost down it get a few designs done at once to spread postage out.

I've must to make my own PCBs cause make a shipment from China to here is too expensive. That's why i must to pay everything. I'm making my own SMD PBCs in EAGLE with autoruting, and with a little bit larger traces, i think that must not be the problem... I'm thinking to buy a air heat gun and SMD glue to make the job too much easy.