Cooper Time Cube DIY / Time Bucket build

[Brymus]

I am starting a new thread for this since I plan on finishing the LoFi telephone feedbacker later.

Here is the first post about my CTC build from here:http://www.diystompboxes.com/smfforum/index.php?topic=106960.0

PRR posted somehelpful info in that thread for anyone interested.

Original post:
PRR
Unknowingly sent me on a quest/inspired me.
I cobbled up a DIY "Timecube" last night,the first results were better than I expected after reading other DIY attempts that were never finished.
I will start another thread for it after I get some pics and some more progress.As I still plan to do the original LoFi telephone feedback effect too.
I actually incorporated both together last night.
The exception is that it wasn't LoFi like I expected,the drivers I used actually sound fairly full range through the tubing.
They sound better mounted in the tubing that they do used as intended/freestanding actually. icon_eek

I believe I have 25' of tubing,it's the deluxe "aquarium cleaner/water bad filler" I bought from Wal-Mart 10 years ago for 30$

Anyway I used a "bullet" usb rechargeable self powered spkr for I-phone/MP3 use,it's input driven by a LM386.
The Bullet fits right into the large tube you vac/clean your aquarium with.
I used the tele earpiece (180Ohm) as the driver at the other end feeding a second 386 then onto the output and feedback loop.
It (earpiece spkr) actually attached to the fitting that hooks to your hose spicket really nice.
Pretty cool delay,sounds like your playing in a large cistern or in a well.
The feedback circuit needs to be filtered just right,I like it when the sustaining notes bloom into self oscillation,that cancels when you hit the next one.
With it set right you can adjust the feedback with the guitar volume.

Problems I need to fix:
*I need to isolate the tubing and drivers,the delay is very noticable compared to the sound coming from the back side of the amped up   bullet.

*There was a low frequency resonance or feedback,may be caused by the mic picking up vibrations from the first driver as it was laying on my table with both drivers in fairly close proximity.Or it could be an issue with the 386's oscillating from too low a gain(pins 1+8 open) or the tubing picking up vibrations. icon_evil

* If the resonance is from the tubing I need to use a high pass filter to remove the "rumble"
(what I read from the "Cooper TimeCube" is that it boosted the high end a lot on the input)

*I need to get the filter for the feedback loop dialed in so its not so hard to adjust between usable/musical and run away oscillation/squeal.
I am thinking somewhere in the mid/upper-middle  /lower- high frequencies.( I used a couple of different low value caps last night)
(1n and 4n7 IIRC)

*I need to route a Dry/Wet mixer so you can hear the delayed signal over the clean one.I did a quick one using a pot last night I think a mixing op amp would be better IDK yet. icon_redface

* I still need to add an FX loop to the feedback loop so the feedback can be affected with "whatever" pedal I choose.
That's it for now more testing and some sound clips to come when I get time  icon_wink

In another forum someone was building one and quit because of the sound quality,a poster suggested shifting the input up several octaves then shifting the output back down several octaves.(cool idea)

This made me think if you used that approach, you can make the physical size much smaller.You could use fishtank air bubble tubing and two small electret mics.Mount it all in a cheap kids metal lunchbox then fill the whole thing with that expanding foam for damping.Even the electronics and jacks would fit so it was all self contained.40'-50' of that small diameter tubing and several electrets placed at different points would fit easily and you could then switch between delay times or run a improvised stereo effect.(which the Timecube did as well)

All in all I think this is a very cool mechanical/electrical FX with lots of un tapped potential.

[Brymus]

Last night I made an isolation chamber for the tubing from a 5 gallon bucket,I used some neoprene mats for damping and spaced the coils of tube to prevent crosstalk through the coils.
Now I can swap drivers without messing with the tubing,and this cuts down on vibrations bleeding through the tube for the most part,plus it's easier to move around now too.
I removed the self powered driver and used a 4ohm/.5 watt speaker simply because it fit the opening of the tube perfectly.

It works a little better now,but still needs a bit of tweaking,making the input cap rather small as a quick HPF really helped the sound.
The feedback loop makes the delay a lot more noticeable.
The 386's may not cut it for this,but I am going to work with them for a while first before moving onto a different type of pre amp setup.

Album with build pics: http://www.aronnelson.com/gallery/main.php/v/Brymus/CTC/

The original Cooper Time Cube manual:http://www.aronnelson.com/gallery/main.php/v/Brymus/CTC/CooperTimeCube.PDF.html

My Time Bucket:


I will try to get some sound clips recorded and posted tonight after a little more tuning of the circuit.

EDIT: fixed the link to the build pics album.

[deadastronaut]

Bucket brigade...

looking forward to hearing this...

[Tonemonger]

Oh , Man I applaud You for actually getting stuck in and doing it.
The CTC has been on My 'to do' list for ages - Along with the plate reverb , Leslie speaker etc...etc...etc...
Very inspiring - ThankYou.

[wavley]

Oh , Man I applaud You for actually getting stuck in and doing it.
The CTC has been on My 'to do' list for ages - Along with the plate reverb , Leslie speaker etc...etc...etc...
Very inspiring - ThankYou.

Same here, I love unique delays and reverbs, it's an addiction.  I have two space echoes and a 20x8x6 cistern I use as a reverb chamber, plus I have your exact same list... I have the drum out of an organ I've been meaning to turn into a vibratone for years.  I also have a couple of tube reel to reels that I've been meaning to turn into a tube space echo.

[Brymus]

As promised here is a quick sound clip of the Time Bucket.

The right channel is the Time Bucket the left channel is straight into my sound card ( I used my J station to get two buffered and isolated outputs)There is no added EQ or FX just straight in and then rendered to MP3.
And yeah I haven't practiced in a year since my band split up.

No feed back loop as yet,it was giving me some trouble and will probably require at least one if not two dual op amps to make work like I want.
The only thing I have done since last time is I put the poly Spkr from the self powered bullet back in,only with out its amp.
It is just running off the 386 only.
I added a low pass filter to the output of both 386's to cut down on hiss,and the second 386 has a 5K pot to control gain.
It will need a blend circuit (an op amp mixer?) to make the delay noticeable which is why I recorded the two tracks (R) wet (L) dry.

I plan to try some microphone modules next,I used a electret mic and went back to the 300 ohm spkr as the mic instead.(as per first test)
To get the performance I want I may have to go with a 5532 based headphone amp type set up,still not sure.
Oh and I am using right at 25' of tubing so the delay is roughly 25ms

Anyway here is the sound clip:http://www.aronnelson.com/gallery/main.php/v/Brymus/Soundclips/TimeBucket_delaysample.mp3.html

[Brymus]

In case it is confusing the sound clip is my LP into my J station (set clean no EQ or FX)
Then the left output goes straight to my sound card's left input.
The right output goes through the TimeBucket - into my 18 watt Plexi's clean channel - recorded by a large diaphram mic - into the right input of my sound card.
Both channels panned hard left and hard right recorded simultaneously into Reaper - then rendered to MP3 w/o any FX or compression ,ect...

I plan to do basically the same thing with the TimeBucket,have one input split to a clean op amp then (volume control/maybe or set gain) then  buffer then mixed with the output from the current TimeBucket circuit.
The Volume will act as the wet/dry level,a tone control on the amp feeding the "tubing" is a maybe as well,may just use a high pass filter.
So many ways to do this mechanical delay.
But it's the mechanical part that makes it interesting to me.

[KazooMan]

I love delays, and I would love to hear your bucket.  The link takes me to a page that does nothing.  Just a long list of entries but there is no apparent way to get the desired clip to play.  Do I need to be a member with a login? 

Any hints about how to hear the clip?

[Brymus]

I checked the permissions and it says its open to everybody,the link takes me to a MP3 player that is standard for the gallery and clicking play ,it plays fine so IDK.
Try this link then click the picture of the note,it should open the mp3 player so you can click play.
http://www.aronnelson.com/gallery/main.php/v/Brymus/Soundclips/

Has anyone else had trouble playing the clip?
It says 23 views,so I hope that doesn't mean 23 people couldn't hear it.

[Mustachio]

The mp3 works here, Recording sounded real nice man !

This is a really cool project ! Well done, I had never seen this effect before you started this thread so thanks for showing and sharing!

[KazooMan]

It was an iPad "feature" that caused the problem.  The link works fine on my PC.

Very nice subtle delay effect.   This is the first time I have ever heard one of these tube delays.  From your original post is sounds like you had to do quiet a bit of tweaking to get such a nice final result.  Thanks for posting the sample.

I suspect that Deadastonaut must be working on a version that links four buckets in a row 

[deadastronaut]

^ 

cool subtle effect, try a 1200 foot pipe 

[Brymus]

Thanks for the kind words.

^ 

cool subtle effect, try a 1200 foot pipe 

I actually plan to use 50-75' of tubing once I get a few more issues resolved.
Then I will place more mics at different lengths,so One channel can be dry or a different amount of delay vs the other.
That would give a few delay options when mixing over dry,or having each channel at a different time and then blend in the dry signal as well.

IDK I will see how hard a variable stereo mechanical delay actually is in the days to come

The original idea I had for my DIY Time Cube was to make it quick and simple using 386's which will work fine if you don't want a clean output.
If you want a distorted overdriven delay sound just use 2 x 386's with whatever transducers you have on hand.

[wavley]

Thanks for the kind words.

^ 

cool subtle effect, try a 1200 foot pipe 

I actually plan to use 50-75' of tubing once I get a few more issues resolved.
Then I will place more mics at different lengths,so One channel can be dry or a different amount of delay vs the other.
That would give a few delay options when mixing over dry,or having each channel at a different time and then blend in the dry signal as well.

IDK I will see how hard a variable stereo mechanical delay actually is in the days to come

The original idea I had for my DIY Time Cube was to make it quick and simple using 386's which will work fine if you don't want a clean output.
If you want a distorted overdriven delay sound just use 2 x 386's with whatever transducers you have on hand.

Have you though about doing it the original way and having two lengths of tube so you can either do stereo delays or cascade them.  I believe the original used a T after the driver and the two sides had 14mS and 16mS delay times that could be cascaded for 30mS of mono delay time.  Looks like you've really pushed this thing into more than the original.  I'm very excited to see where this goes, someday I'm going to built one too.

[Tonemonger]

Cool Clip ! ( The freq. response is a fair bit wider than I would have expected ).
I initially had trouble hearing it too So , A couple of those plays would have been Me messing around, shutting down My browser and starting again.

You might find this handy -
http://seanm.ca/stomp/bblender.html

It's clean , easy and there's plenty of scope for additional filtering.
I've used it with great success for all sorts of stuff.
See also the link there to the Moosapotamus cct.

[bluebunny]

cool subtle effect, try a 1200 foot pipe 

The London Underground's not being used today.  How's that for a long pipe, Rob?   

[deadastronaut]

^ that'll be perfect....you would have to have an albanian woman selling the big issue next to it to make it authentic though..

[PRR]

> The London Underground's not being used today.

If the pipe is too wide, mids and highs get crossways in it, get garbled and cancelled.

Also I believe they will want their tube back in a day or so.

I found more stale crumbs. Speaking tubes at 100s of feet were 2" or 3" diameter. This is perhaps too wide for High Fidelity, but speech (and much guitar) can pass a much smaller band.

[petey twofinger]

this is really cool .

when i was young there was an abandoned gravel elevator with a large reverb chamber we used to bring battery amps into .

inside the empty water tower , that was really cool natural reverb , until the police / fpd / helicopter showed up ...

[wavley]

this is really cool .

when i was young there was an abandoned gravel elevator with a large reverb chamber we used to bring battery amps into .

inside the empty water tower , that was really cool natural reverb , until the police / fpd / helicopter showed up ...

My back porch is a 20x6x8 cistern.  It has a speaker at one end an a mic at the other, it's really nice to have my very one unique and natural reverb build into my house.