Phase 90 vs Boss PH-3

[fuzzyhead]

Hey, I'm thinking about purchasing a phase 90 kit from General Guitar Gadgets, but I'm not completely sure that's what I want to do. I'm also considering buying a Boss PH-3. I'm just wondering what you recommend I do, also which you prefer. (I will be using it on bass.) Any input is helpful!

Thanks Guys!

[Ice-9]

If your not too sure about what you would prefer I would advise going to a music shop and trying both the originals our side by side first, it will give you a much better idea which one your going to prefer to build or buy.

[fuzzyhead]

Yeah, I think that's what I'll do. I usually rent quite a few pedals from the local music store anyway, so why not 

[Mark Hammer]

The PH-3 is a digital pedal.  That is not a bad thing itself, but modding will be out f the question.

[armdnrdy]

Mark is correct:

http://www.diystompboxes.com/smfforum/index.php?topic=57964.0

The PH-3 is a four stage phase shifter circuit that achieves the same thing that the P-90 does.....but in a different manner.

Nothing gained here as far as I can tell.

[Mark Hammer]

I wouldn't say that.  It does the "barber pole" thing, which is kinda neat, and feasible but complex in analog form.  But, like I say, if you want to tweak, you'll need to stick to the analog world.

[armdnrdy]

Once again..correct!

It turns out that I based my statement off of a mislabeled schematic on the net. (I was looking at the PH-2)

Here is the correct schematic......and it is a monster!

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v517/uncle_boko/bossPH3.gif

[StephenGiles]

 Barberpole Phasing is unique. Very difficult to achieve in analog - rack territory!!

Worthwhile project though, there was an article in Polyphony, before some of you were born (!!!), all about this!! Must dig it out.

http://machines.hyperreal.org/manufacturers/Paia/images/shepard.txt?0046

[StephenGiles]

  found it

http://home.comcast.net/~synthdoc/P/EK9.pdf

Some interesting stuff in that site if you search behind that link!

[zombiwoof]

I have the PH1-R, which to me sounds most like a 4-stage (which I think it is) Phase 90 type pedal, the PH-2 added a switch for more stages, but isn't as highly regarded as the PH-1, PH-3 I know little about, but there is still a bunch of info on the old Bossarea pages, about every pedal made by Boss (except maybe the really recent new ones).  I love the PH-1R personally.

http://bossarea.com/

Al

[Mark Hammer]

The PH-1 and 1R are FET-based, where the PH-2 used the proprietary IR3109 chip.  The IR3109 is a quad OTA; essentially a pair of 13600s on a single chip.  And because it does not handle hot input signals well, the pedal also used a 571 compander chip to manage headroom and dynamics.  In general, there is a lot less "stuff" between input and output on the PH-1R, although I suppose one needs to distinguish between how much stuff and what kind of stuff.

The PH-3, as discussed, moved into the digital domain, although I can't speak to its specs, like sampling rate, A/D resolution, etc.

[StephenGiles]

The PH-1 and 1R are FET-based, where the PH-2 used the proprietary IR3109 chip.  The IR3109 is a quad OTA; essentially a pair of 13600s on a single chip.  And because it does not handle hot input signals well, the pedal also used a 571 compander chip to manage headroom and dynamics.  In general, there is a lot less "stuff" between input and output on the PH-1R, although I suppose one needs to distinguish between how much stuff and what kind of stuff.

The PH-3, as discussed, moved into the digital domain, although I can't speak to its specs, like sampling rate, A/D resolution, etc.

From what I remember Mark, the Barberpole settings are non user adjustable, but may be with tampering.

[fuzzyhead]

Thanks for all the help/info guys. Just another thought to throw out there. I've heard lots about the EHX nano small stone. What is that like compared to the PH-3 and phase 90. Is recommended? Should I take interest in to that one as well?

Thanks!

[Mark Hammer]

The Small Stone is deservedly a classic, and has tons of interesting mods that can be done.  The Nano Small Stone, unfortunately, is surface mount.  This makes it very awkward, and risky, to do any mods.  If you can find an older issue of any sort that uses through-hole parts, then we can guide you to some interesting sounds.

P90s and Small Stones each have their charms and quirks.  Both worth having.

[fuzzyhead]

I found a russian small stone. But not quite sure about the through-hole parts though.

http://www.beavisaudio.com/gg/images/EHX_SmallStoneRussian_1.jpg

[fuzzyhead]

Here is what I found about the Small Stone(s). I don't know if this is much of a help but I thought I'd share it with you.

http://www.pedalarea.com/small_stone.htm

[Mark Hammer]

I hot-rodded one of those black Russian units.  Sold it, but it sounded great.  The normal "Color" switch adjusts both regeneration, speed, and sweep width at the same time.  I split the functions, such that one switch was used for width/speed-range, and the other used for 3 different regen settings.  The LP/AP switch  changes two of the phase-shift stages to produce the "phase-filter" sound, and the remaining switch simply lifts the clean signal to produce a vibrato warble, rather than phase shift.

The chassis has plenty of room for installing additional switches and pots, and the circuit board is very hospitable to making mods.

[fuzzyhead]

That is interesting. So, I don't know now. It's either between the small stone or phase 90. I don't think I'll be going with the PH-3 just because what you mentioned a few post back about not being able to mod it. Because I will be using the phaser on bass so I expect I will have mod it to sound good with bass and also mod it and tweak it to taste. So, I really don't know. And if I understand correctly "analog" is better for modding?

[Mark Hammer]

Yes, analog will provide more points of intervention.  What's also good is that bass will benefit from you being able to dial back effect intensity - a mod.

[fuzzyhead]

Ok, thanks. Just another question, the phase 90 is analog, right? If it's not I don't want to be wasting my time with it.